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I'm so tired of seeing posts or threads asking about keeping time. Like WTF?
Keeping time is the most simple, basic thing in music. It's what you learn when you first start learning in music, way back when they show you the staff lines and what all the squiggly symbols mean, FACE, and Every Good Boy Does Fine, the C major scale; the very beginning of your studies. Quarter notes, eight notes, whole, half, 16th, dotted, triplets, etc., etc.
Somewhere in there, you learn how to count all the different notes in musical examples. It's like the most basic, beginning things you learn in music. So when I see people writing posts asking about how to count, etc, I just want to say, "dude, if you can't do a simple thing like count, in time; you should just quit trying to be a musician because you don't have what it takes." I'm serious about that.
About 99% of songs are in 4/4 time for a reason, because it's simple, an even number, and easy to feel, and count. Once you learn how to count triplets in 4/4 time, that’s it just do that every time the music calls for a triplet feel, and you then know how to play triplets in about 99% of songs. Now, repeat that for all the subdivisions in music.
It's the most basic thing. It just takes some practice. If you can't master that, maybe you should put away the guitar and take up knitting.
I know, when you're a brand new beginner, it doesn't seem easy, but you just have to practice, which means boring exercises until you get it. For learning those kinds of things boring exercises are your friend.Last edited by AdroitMage; 06-02-2025 at 02:05 AM.
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06-02-2025 01:31 AM
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1-Pa-Ta-To
2-Pa-Ta-To
3-Pa-Ta-To
4-Pa-Ta-To
Since the beginning of time, I've been using 1-Po-Ta-To, 2-Po-Ta-To, 3-Po-Ta-To, 4-Po-Ta-To for 16th notes, I think this is where I went wrong. I've been told it should be: 1-Ee-And-Aah
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So are you guys block universe people?
or?
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1 Po Ta To etc is a shuffle to me!
Originally Posted by GuyBoden
1-Pa-Ta-To
2-Pa-Ta-To
3-Pa-Ta-To
4-Pa-Ta-To
Since the beginning of time, I've been using 1-Po-Ta-To, 2-Po-Ta-To, 3-Po-Ta-To, 4-Po-Ta-To for 16th notes, I think this is where I went wrong. I've been told it should be: 1-Ee-And-Aah
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It's not though. Originally Posted by AdroitMage
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That's the thing will ALL this music stuff. It's all very simple to summarize in writing, but it's the doing it that's the hard part. Originally Posted by DawgBone
You guys can't blow over Giant Steps? Just hit chord tones and lead into the next chord that's coming. It's the most simple, basic concept of soloing...
See what I did there?
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The real problem with time isn't the mechanics of each note's value or how to count. It's the ability to have time be consistent, and the ability to manipulate phrasing around the time to keep it alive and moving. If you count the note values absolutely correctly but start off at 130 bpm then speed up to 150 then really you're rushing and slow to 120 then really you're dragging...
For most of us "time" isn't about what you can learn in 20 minutes reading a book. It's about how to move around in the time structure of a tune without turning the band and the tune into a train wreck.
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everything is simple Originally Posted by AllanAllen
nothing is easy
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Except for wave-particle duality, which is simultaneously both simple and easy.
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Meanwhile, there are people who have been playing and studying music for decades and still either rush or drag the tempo. Keeping time (in the sense of maintaining a sort of inner metronome that keeps you from drifting off the tempo) is not simple at all. Listening to the rest of the band while playing and while keeping your time in synch with the other players is not simple at all. As with most complex activities some people have an innate time feel that lets them do these things relatively easily; some people have to work at it more systematically. People here are asking how to keep time because they are struggling with it and are looking for help doing that. It's stupid and obnoxious to dismiss these questions with a non-sequitur answer about reading note values. Originally Posted by AdroitMage
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An entanglement of simple and easy. Originally Posted by CliffR
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No one is legally required to read every post in every thread. Not even every thread. Life is short, and forum posts are many. I skip a lot of threads because they don't interest me, and the forum police haven't come after me, as far as I can tell. If you have no interest in threads about time, just ignore them.
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To be fair, time feel isn't really taught standardly. So it would make sense to have threads discussing time. There is more to the time feel sounding good than only time tho of 1, 2, 3, 4. It's a full subject. Kind of stupid to be disparaging of people bringing it up.
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Time is just one thing after another.
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Is it cos your times rubbish? Originally Posted by AdroitMage
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It's easy to say it's easy. It's easy to be impatient with someone who doesn't get it ...yet.
And then there are those who I've played with who told me there's an infinity of places to put yourself within a beat. Paul Motian and Badal Roi told me that separately, and to them it wasn't simple.
When you can achieve control within the beat, it's still a long trip to mastering time. Or am I missing a beat here?
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Is time an illusion?
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Coulda fooled me. Originally Posted by jazznylon
Time to go
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I was working with a keys player who graduated from a decent music program. He had really good time/rhythm. One night on the bandstand out of the blue I told him "you count this one in". He completely biffed it. You can internalize time but you also should be able to externalize it or you cannot be a good bandleader or conductor.
It's amazing when I'm counting in around 160bpm for a fast shuffle how many drummers hear the count-in but then immediately bring it back to 120-130. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING?!?!?! Get with the damn program and learn to count!!!
Time, and the 12 bar changes should be the last thing before your heart to shut down when you die or you have not really acquired either. There is ALWAYS room for improvement when it comes to time.
If you think "I got this" then go slam a generous double shot of wild turkey 101 and prove it to yourself. If you can still do it then you are either on the ball or just an alcoholic. I do this to my band members if i think they have gotten cocky or just to see what a new guy is made of.
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Jokes aside, time is interesting. Just listen to different drummers handle time. I really noticed this listening to Jimmy Cobb; his beat is hugely wide at any tempo with a lot of space to walk around inside of it, even though he's playing the same number of beats per minute as another drummer. I don't know how he does it but it's really striking.
And then compare him to Philly Jo Jones to Paul Motian to Al Foster to Bill Stewart, etc. 120BPM sounds and feels different with each of them. Or watch the video of Ginger Baker playing live with Charlie Haden and Bill Frisell. To get outside of jazz, watch Jaimoe and Butch Trucks play together, or Bill Kreutzmann and Mickey Hart. Or Trilok Gurtu or Zakir Hussein. Heck, check out Planet Drum.
Peter Erskine has a really good instruction book with CD on hearing, feeling, counting and playing time.
Or...
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I think the most interesting aspect of this thread (and frankly insulting to the OP without he or she even possibly realizing it) is that half of the members are aware that the original poster is notorious for trolling and writing insulting and condescending posts, and are responding appropriately with pictures of potatoes etc., as well as Alen's response that it is easier said than done:
"That's the thing will ALL this music stuff. It's all very simple to summarize in writing, but it's the doing it that's the hard part".
The other half is unaware of his or her methods and are falling into the trap and responding as if it is a relevant question.
As Christian said: "Is it cos your times rubbish? "
To the OP, please post an unedited video of your musical genius and your identity so that we can all learn something.Last edited by Question; 06-03-2025 at 10:48 AM.
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Troll or no troll it gave everyone a chance to reiterate how important time is. Originally Posted by Question
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That was condescending too? Second time this week where I think I'm stating a plain fact and it's seen as condescending... clearly this is a problem with everyone else and not me.
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Allanallen,
NO, not condescending! (maybe I need to reword my post to make that clear)
I understood what you said as calling out the OP saying "easier said than done".
I agree with you completely; understanding a concept (like your example of Giant Steps) and being able to do it in real time are not the same thing.
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