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But he's not a bad classical player for his age. That would be fair.
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01-08-2019 12:29 AM
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I had never heard of Antoine, so thanks for that. Very inspiring young player.
I don't recall a player with both classical (real classical) right hand AND competent Gypsy jazz playing, legit in both styles/disciplines.
I was thinking that he was not nearly as harmonically sophisticated as Joe after listening to his Gypsy video, then saw his more contemporary arrangements. Wow, much different story. It sounds like he's been listening to Frisell, among others. Lots of ambient aesthetics combined with contrapuntal expressiveness.
But - I don't think that a comparison to Joe Pass really makes much sense. He's not going for the same thing at all, and if he would he would have a long way to go, but could probably get there.
Given the market demand and tastes in 2019, his more contemporary leanings would seem to be a wiser choice indeed.
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This is the real deal. I like the big tyre myself :-)
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I'm with you there. Absolutely.
Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
This isn't bad (but he's still very much a classical player).
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Compare and contrast...
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What Andy V said, "Pass had a certain stiffness in his time feel". That's what I was thinking. Mainly swing/time feel. I mean, after the new crop of players arrived, like Sco, Abercrombie, Frisell, they set new standards for jazz guitar, and especially swing/time feel, which was hipper and better suited for playing in ensembles IMO. Originally Posted by wintermoon
Besides that, I'm gonna say very sacrilegious thing here, but ES175WithHumbuckersAndFlatwoundStringsIntoPolytone is the most outdated and (to me) boring jazz tone ever. Ha, I had to get that of my chest!
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Wow. That last bit is the most discouraging musical statement from a serious person I've ever read on this forum. Maybe I need a break. You just panned the sound that has haunted me all my life and I've striven to achieve and use. Somehow your statement, which is fair, not harsh, and serious, not trolling... it has momentarily crushed my spirit. Guess I'm a traditional jazz snowflake... Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Guitar is dead and lives only in the memories of baby boomers and a few gen-x'ers ... I don't mind tho
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He said he was being sacrilegious because people strive for that tone almost religiously, right? That tone is the Holy Grail to many players. As he noted, he's in the minority with that opinion. Take heart, don't take the comment to heart, and continue to strive for the tone in your heart. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Good thing we are musicians, Lawson, and not accountants. If you're an accountant, it either adds up to $27,504.22 or it doesn't. The sound you love is the sound you love and no one can tell you it doesn't add up. We react as we react and the world of all art is made better for the diversity of feeling within.
I'm supposed to love the music of Billie Holiday and Bob Dylan. Both of them are like chalk on a blackboard to my ear - and don't get me started on Joan Baez! A thousand posters can tell me why I'm wrong but I will shrug it off with my soul and personal taste completely shiny and intact.
Let me say also that I've read many of your reminiscences about Joe's music and your personal relationship with him and have always found them interesting and insightful. So let's engage in fair musical criticism but not take it all too seriously because we are all right and we are all wrong! Via la difference.
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Supposed to? Originally Posted by AndyV
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...... i was waiting for LAWson to say thatMaybe I need a break. You just panned the sound that has haunted me all my life
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I think the more appropriate way for these things is for one to just say "I prefer so and so's play to so and so" instead of this player is BETTER than that player
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I don't understand the point you are making. Originally Posted by voxss
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i did once dream of that set up..ES175WithHumbuckersAndFlatwoundStringsIntoPolytone ....finances wouldnt allow so i have a peerless Monarch and a Roland microcube...kitchen player not a bedroom one..warmer here....lol
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I felt that way as a teenager. I was used to Hendrix and Beck and the rest. But now, that is my favorite guitar sound. (And a close second is Frank Vignola's acoustic sound.) I don't like the "processed" sound that I associate with more modern jazz players, especially of the fusion variety. I just don't care for it. And as much as I enjoy the ocassional jolt of crunchy rock guitar, I rarely seek it out. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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The 175 into Polytone thing is kinda hit or miss for me. There's records of Joe playing live where I love it, the room supplies a nice natural reverb...it's not like the Joy Spring/Intercontinental type sound, which is almost surely a tube amp (and imho, ranks up there with the best clean electric jazz tones ever) but it's really good.
On some of the studio recordings though, it's just too dry and "brittle" almost ("Eximous," for example)
None of that is Joe's fault though, I think. Those records were made pretty quickly with a pretty low budget. And the playing is still stellar. But I do find the tone off putting enough to where I don't listen to those records as often--and I honestly think if it were a lesser player like, I dunno...Jeff Matz, for example-- I wouldn't listen at all
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I still love the ES175WithHumbuckersAndFlatwoundStringsIntoPolytone sound right alongside the WithL5cesWithHumbuckersAndFlatwoundStringsIntoPoly tone sound best. But the other sounds, processing, effects, Metheny, Scofield, are great too. I enjoy them, learn from them, feel no need to diss them. It's not how I hope to play, but in a Faustian bargain if I were told I could play like Scofield but I would have to surrender my ES175 and Polytone, I'm making that deal yesterday!
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I remember seeing Scofield live once back in the late eighties and thinking I had never heard something so stiff and unmusical or a player with so little interest or connection with the other musicians on stage in my life. I was debating walking out when I saw a guy at a table next to me tapping his feet and bobbing his head like he was at a fiddle jam at a Kentucky hoedown. He had a huge grin and was clearly hearing a serious groove where I heard an AI experiment. That’s when I realized how differently two people could hear the same music! Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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<goes home and hugs MiniBrute/> Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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WES smokes. i wouldnt say Joe Smokes..just an elegance in his playing...im just playing his For Django transcription original with John Pisano underpinning Joes Es 175 .............did i just hear Saen Saens Dance MAcabre..Faust ...midnight dance
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Wow, im sorry, i didnt mean to crush your or anyone spirit. You know, i very appreciate you calling me a 'seriuos' person, and I am, but when it comes to playing music. Talking on the forum sometimes is different... I guess i can be a bit of troll, but i dont mean bad, just having fun ha! Originally Posted by lawson-stone
I do not favor that tone, but by all means, do not stop pursuing it if that's what you love! Why would you! Tone is so subjective. And playing wise, lets just say I use JP licks all the time, he's a giant obviously.
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See I think Joe smokes too. haven't you seen that cigar??? Originally Posted by voxss
He also swings, laughs, smirks, grimaces, rolls his eyes, parodies himself, and seems to have fun playing.
And I think he smokes.
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What a cathartic thread! Let it all out!
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