A note-for-note re-creation of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue

**ah.clem** · 10-25-2014, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Stevebol

I'll never forget sitting around a table with Al Tinney between sets when I went to go see my play.

Al was the my first jazz and improv teacher; I still have some of his hand written lesson charts from almost 40 years ago. The guy was amazing, with an amazing career; he literally played with everyone who passed though the city, and I never understood why he wasn't as famous as Duke or Fats or Art or Oscar. He had a huge left hand and he could teach a rock to keep time. A real humble guy and funny, too. Patient as the day is long, as they say. I have thought about Al so often over the years, it's nice to know that someone else knew him, heard him play. I wish I could have heard him in the 30's-40's at Monroe's Uptown House, especially with Max Roach and Parker. There's also an interesting anecdote I've read from a few sources over the years about him and Art Tatum; he cut Tatum so badly one night that Tatum refused to ever acknowledge him after the incident. That's just cold, but Al shrugged it off. After the war he got really disgusted with all the drug abuse with his old band members and left the NY scene in the early 60's. Al was a stand-up guy, all around.

**princeplanet** · 10-25-2014, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by ah.clem

.... he cut Tatum so badly one night that Tatum refused to ever acknowledge him after the incident. That's just cold, but Al shrugged it off......

Really?

**Stevebol** · 10-25-2014, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by ah.clem

Al was the my first jazz and improv teacher; I still have some of his hand written lesson charts from almost 40 years ago. The guy was amazing, with an amazing career; he literally played with everyone who passed though the city, and I never understood why he wasn't as famous as Duke or Fats or Art or Oscar. He had a huge left hand and he could teach a rock to keep time. A real humble guy and funny, too. Patient as the day is long, as they say. I have thought about Al so often over the years, it's nice to know that someone else knew him, heard him play. I wish I could have heard him in the 30's-40's at Monroe's Uptown House, especially with Max Roach and Parker. There's also an interesting anecdote I've read from a few sources over the years about him and Art Tatum; he cut Tatum so badly one night that Tatum refused to ever acknowledge him after the incident. That's just cold, but Al shrugged it off. After the war he got really disgusted with all the drug abuse with his old band members and left the NY scene in the early 60's. Al was a stand-up guy, all around.

I think he wasn't famous because he was a performer. He didn't record except when he sang with the Jive-Bombers. Al was a club musician. The real thing.
My favorite jazz musician ever and nicest guy you'll ever meet.

**Stevebol** · 10-26-2014, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by princeplanet

Really?

Did you ever hear him play? He had a massive sound. Huge. It's in the the right foot pedal.

**ah.clem** · 10-26-2014, 12:04 AM

I've read it a few places, heard a less nasty version from Al, and read it in a transcript of a video interview he gave to Monk Rowe in Buffalo NY in 2002, the year he died (I think he passed in 2002). It is a much more polite version (Al's), but knowing the man for so long I have no reason to disbelieve him. He didn't talk smack about players; he mentions the incident very politely in the interview. Frankly, I have no reason to doubt it; it was hard to get him to talk about any of the players he worked with, good or bad, so I think the whole thing left him feeling kinda badly for him to mention it, all those years later.

**ah.clem** · 10-26-2014, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Stevebol

I think he wasn't famous because he was a performer. He didn't record except when he sang with the Jive-Bombers. Al was a club musician. The real thing.
My favorite jazz musician ever and nicest guy you'll ever meet.

Yeah. He really was the real thing. I really do feel sorry for the folks that never got to see him, hear him or talk with him for a few moments. The man was a mensch. I'm glad I had a chance to know him.

**Stevebol** · 10-26-2014, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by ah.clem

Yeah. He really was the real thing. I really do feel sorry for the folks that never got to see him, hear him or talk with him for a few moments. The man was a mensch. I'm glad I had a chance to know him.

When I met him which was about 20+ years ago I was goofing around and recording a bit. Not much but a little at home. I gave him a call about a project. He say's to me on phone, WHAT'S THE LOWDOWN!! haha. Thank God I didn't follow through. In fact I haven't recorded anything since.

**ah.clem** · 10-26-2014, 12:31 AM

There's a Youtube of him playing when he was 80 or 81, but mostly it's like listening to a shadow; you can hear what a player he used to be. But hell, if I can hold my guitar when I'm 80, I'll be a happy man!

**henryrobinett** · 10-26-2014, 02:18 AM

I have a very hard ti believing that story. Perceptions of events are very subjective. Oscar Peterson was so intimidated by Tatum that when Oscar was playing and showing off in a club and Tatum walked in OP jumped up and apologized for playing the piano. Tatum was by all accounts a very sweet man. If he refused to talk to him again maybe there was some other perceived snub.

**cosmic gumbo** · 10-26-2014, 02:32 AM

Maybe we can start an Al Tinney thread so we can get back to the original topic...or not...

**ah.clem** · 10-26-2014, 10:06 AM

Frankly, I don't care what people believe either way. I didn't know Tatum, I knew Tinney. There are always stories, but I'll go with what I've actually heard, both the playing and from the source.

Sorry for the thread hijack Cosmic. You are right, and I look forward to more insightful commentary about jazz cover bands, the total hipness of the "new" jazz players who have no idea what standards are or how to play over them and the pigeonholing of older players as the dottering "old guard" that don't seem to have a clue in the 21st century. Oh, and the jazz/classical thing again.

The Mingus jokes we quite funny, though. Seriously, I like that kind of humor.

**grahambop** · 10-26-2014, 10:42 AM

Wonder what Miles would have said about MOPDTK 'Blue'?

I would hazard a guess, but I don't want to be thrown off the forum for obscene language!

**henryrobinett** · 10-26-2014, 11:23 AM

Well Mingus was my cousin. I don't appreciate those jokes at all.

**princeplanet** · 10-26-2014, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Well Mingus was my cousin. I don't appreciate those jokes at all.

Surely with Charles' sense of humour, even he could have a laugh at his own expense from time to time? But, wow, he was your cousin! First, or distant?

**Stevebol** · 10-26-2014, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by ah.clem

Frankly, I don't care what people believe either way. I didn't know Tatum, I knew Tinney. There are always stories, but I'll go with what I've actually heard, both the playing and from the source.

Sorry for the thread hijack Cosmic. You are right, and I look forward to more insightful commentary about jazz cover bands, the total hipness of the "new" jazz players who have no idea what standards are or how to play over them and the pigeonholing of older players as the dottering "old guard" that don't seem to have a clue in the 21st century. Oh, and the jazz/classical thing again.

The Mingus jokes we quite funny, though. Seriously, I like that kind of humor.

Well you knew him and I met him. Let's get back to talking about recording artists. We can't prove anything.

**Stevebol** · 10-26-2014, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by ah.clem

I've read it a few places, heard a less nasty version from Al, and read it in a transcript of a video interview he gave to Monk Rowe in Buffalo NY in 2002, the year he died (I think he passed in 2002). It is a much more polite version (Al's), but knowing the man for so long I have no reason to disbelieve him. He didn't talk smack about players; he mentions the incident very politely in the interview. Frankly, I have no reason to doubt it; it was hard to get him to talk about any of the players he worked with, good or bad, so I think the whole thing left him feeling kinda badly for him to mention it, all those years later.

Not to stay OT but Al was interviewed for a book someone was doing on Charlie Christian. Peter Broadbent. It's a nice little book in case you didn't catch it.

**henryrobinett** · 10-26-2014, 03:30 PM

I'm not denigrating the man. I don't know him. But you're trying to say that the man who Arthur Rubinstein, widely regarded as the greatest pianist of all time, called Art Tatum the greatest pianist he's ever heard. I doubt that ANYONE would have "cut him so badly" Tatum would have refused to ever acknowledge him. It just sounds like an urban legend. I have no doubt Al could play. No disrespect intended.

**henryrobinett** · 10-26-2014, 03:32 PM

Mingus didn't take to bullshit. In reality he was a very gentle man but he had a zero threshold for bullshit, and he could smell it miles away.

**henryrobinett** · 10-26-2014, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by princeplanet

Surely with Charles' sense of humour, even he could have a laugh at his own expense from time to time? But, wow, he was your cousin! First, or distant?

First cousin once removed is how they call it. Mingus' mother and my fathers mother were sisters. I lived with him in the mid-late 70s. My father and Charles were very close.

**cosmic gumbo** · 10-26-2014, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Well Mingus was my cousin. I don't appreciate those jokes at all.

Sorry Henry, try not to take it personal. Mingus is one of my jazz heros, but part of his legacy is his well documented fits of violence, I'm sure he was a very frustrated person.

**henryrobinett** · 10-26-2014, 05:26 PM

Some of those fits of violence aren't as well documented as you might imagine. It does make good copy though. And he knew this.

**Stevebol** · 10-26-2014, 10:04 PM

I'm going to take my own advice- do your own thing. If people want to do a tribute thing or whatever it is who am I to judge.

**nick1994** · 10-27-2014, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

First cousin once removed is how they call it. Mingus' mother and my fathers mother were sisters. I lived with him in the mid-late 70s. My father and Charles were very close.

Hey Henry, did you ever get to play with him?

**henryrobinett** · 10-27-2014, 04:57 AM

No, but I played with members of his last band. He was pretty sick at the time I was living with him. ALS. Wheelchair. But he taught me a bunch of stuff. He'd have me get my guitar and he'd show me.