Where did Pat Metheny get his style from?

[DaveF]

I know Pat said that he learned to play off Wes' Smokin' at the half note but he soon after stopped playing like Wes. His vocabulary seems pretty unique to me so the question is where did he get it from? Triads?? Wes and Jim??

[AlainJazz]

I've also listened to that recording hundreds of times and I still sound nothing like Wes or Pat. What am i doing wrong??? :-)

[DaveF]

I've also listened to that recording hundreds of times and I still sound nothing like Wes or Pat. What am i doing wrong??? :-)

Must be your string gauge.

[SamBooka]

Martini or Methane?

[wintermoon]

I thought this was a post about Pat Martino

[Rob MacKillop]

So, not from guitar forums then? Doh!

[3625]

I'll say the obvious, that Jim Hall was a big influence, in particular his motivic use of wide intervals, and slurs etc. There's an old saying that if you play Bird at half speed it sounds like Lester Young - I wonder if you play Jim Hall at double speed, does it sound like Metheny?

[mr. beaumont]

I think the OP is talking Metheny here.

His writing always strikes me as "folky." And remember he played with Gary Burton early on too.

Wes filtered through Burton ' s harmonic approach, Hall's motific development, with a little Missouri bred americana...there's part of a recipe for Pat in there...

[jaco]

Practicing 12 hours a day when he was young probably helped some.

[ecj]

I've never really heard the Wes Montgomery in Metheny. I just don't see it. His tone is different, his articulation is different, his vocabulary is different.

Jim Hall is, to me, the obvious progenitor. Listening to Jim Hall on Live! and then putting on one of Metheny's Trio records just seems like a logical extension.

I know Metheny talks about Wes being his favorite a lot. Benson always sounded more like the Montgomery heir to me.

[AndyV]

Wes. Mick Goodrick at Berklee. Horn players. His own taste and melodic sense.

[DaveF]

I tend to agree with Jeff, he must have quite a bit of Jim Hall in his vocabulary along with Gary Burton's approach to improvising being a huge factor in his playing. BUT I really am of the impression that most of his licks are his own and are derived from his extensive use of triads. That being the case, it's very impressive to me because he has a seemingly endless array of licks! Watching him on the Orchestrion Blu-ray is phenomenal, I'm not a fan of the project but his playing on there is ridiculously good. To be quite open with you all, I really wish to hear more of his playing in modern players.

[DaveF]

I think there's quite a bit of Miles Davis in his lictionary?

[eazilyled]

There was a recent BBC radio series on jazz guitarists, and one of the episodes was about Pat (Metheny). Pat was interviewed and he said that he started playing exactly like Wes, but felt bad about being a clone and decided that he should pursue finding his own voice. But I've no idea how he went about this.

[ronjazz]

He has a command of the bebop language that comes from his Wes study, even though he consciously moved away from that. I spoke with him a length several years ago and he also was very enthusiastic about the Brazilian players, from Toninho Horta to Rafael Rabello, and I ran into him at a Paco de Lucia concert as well. He's a sponge.

[Eric Rowland]

"He's a sponge."

Exactly Ron....the best players are the best listeners.

[mangotango]

There's a blog/interview with Pat on iTunes where he names the 3 pillars of his playing as Montgomery, Hall and Kenny BUrrell.

If I can't hear much of Montgomery in there, I can hear even less of KB.

Nevertheless, you got most of my favourite players in that fourball.

[Ronstuff]

I believe than certain influences do not necessarily show up directly in someone's playing(such as their vocabulary).

I had a lesson with Pat many years ago, and one thing he loved about those players is their time feel and great phrasing. The ability to place phrases in different parts of the beat and the groove. Pat was the 1st guy to ever demonstrate the latter right in front of me and at a very high level. I had heard a lot about it but but had never experienced it right in front of me. Great guy, and it was very motivating for the young 21 year old that I was at the time.

[Pat Clare]

Ormette Coleman concept is an acknoweded influence.

[jads57]

I also would imagine his brother Mike (trumpet player) to be a huge influence on him as well. Can really hear it in his guitar synth playing!

[TH]

Wes. Mick Goodrick at Berklee. Horn players. His own taste and melodic sense.

Listen to his early recordings with Gary Burton. Sometimes it's hard to tell Pat from Mick. Pat was listening to Gary's music in his formative years, early Pat has that sound to it. Steve Swallow. For sure, he picked up a lot from Swallow during that time.
Later on, he just took the ball and ran. His lyric sense was always his own.
David

[StevieB]

Vince Bredice

[TrakaVobla]

I think that Toninho Horta could be one of the influences.

[DaveF]

I think that Toninho Horta could be one of the influences.

I think you're right!

[JakeAcci]

Man I'm too lazy to find it now, but I did read a pretty long interview where he talked about the Wes influence, how he departed from it at an early age, but how trumpet players were a big influence on him, and how he 'hears' lines as a trumpet (at least at the time of the interview.)

He has a pretty unique vocabulary to my ears, at least among the guitar gods. The legato, the articulation, enclosures, metronomic accuracy, rhythmic displacement...he's not my favorite player (probably because I've listened to him too much at this point1) but even just his rhythmic conception and the fact that he can execute it so flawlessly is kind of mind boggling, nevermind his harmonic and melodic sense, his compositions, etc.