Pat Martino Inquiry

[dean taylor]

hello

In the ongoing quest to assimilate the fingerboard, I happened upon the Martino analogy of piano and guitar.

That is--and, as you know--he juxtaposes the heptatonic-plus-pentatonic nature of the piano (seven notes of the scale focused upon plus the five notes outside that scale) on one side, to what he visualizes as the multiplicative nature of the guitar--i.e., the four notes of the diminished chord multiplied by the three notes of the augmented triad.

The first half of the analogy seems readily apparent--i.e., the piano viewed as a seven-plus-five construct is fairly easy to accept, work from, etc.

It's the second, 'multiplicative' guitar system which I would like to explore, clarify, etc. If you are familiar with his system, please take a moment to clarify PM's four-times-three concept...

For example, the four notes of the diminished and the three notes of the augmented--by themselves--are simple terms. Why, then, reduce the fingerboard to the product of (i.e., the result of multiplying) those two terms? Or, to be more specific--how does PM achieve the reduction via a 'multiplying' of terms?

thank you!

[jasaco]

Exactly.

[jckoto3]

Have you seen this:

http://truefire.com/blog/guitar-less...ing-fretboard/

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Have you seen this:

http://truefire.com/blog/guitar-less...ing-fretboard/

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Let me try again. I don't know if I buy the argument, but it is that the piano is linear -- a row of black and white keys. Linear = addition. The guitar is a matrix, or two-dimensional: frets and strings. Matrix = multiplication.

[edh]

Exactly.

LOL! funny

[jtizzle]

Just going to point out that Pat Martino has a reputation of making no sense at all.

[nosoyninja]

..

[dean taylor]

I had asked a moderator to delete the thread--not 'edit' portions he was offended by...

Gratuitous, obnoxious trolling and suggestions of violent responses as 'replies' to a courteous, legitimate request for information he is less offended by: this is termed a 'double standard'...

The 'replies' to the OP were aggressive and pointless--this does absolutely nothing to encourage younger musicians who would like to pose a question--which is at cross purposes with the point of the forum...

Even the one comment who sought to clarify further my OP was met with hostility--as he had fallen upon the wrong side on the aggression!

My 'edited-out' reply was a well-deserved 'spanking' to a few hypocritical brats who wander around the threads with nothing better to do than engage in spiteful, malicious trolling.

And, that's just too bad...

It's simple: if you do not care for an inquiry or the person making same, then stay the hell away from the thread--easy, right?

One more time--for the many thick-headed souls who have nothing going on for themselves but to post thousands of times, or to traffic in lame gossip:

If you do not have a positive contribution to make, then find it within yourself to stay off that thread.

Process that.

[henryrobinett]

Wow.

[yaclaus]

Dean Taylor, you should learn to treat people better....

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

(Post omitted.)

Reported.

If you don't want to encourage this kind of posting on the forum, I suggest you report it, too.

[monk]

Original Quotes Redacted

In the five years I've been a member of this forum I've seen disagreements, heated arguments and outright dust-ups but THIS is the rudest post I have ever read.

[newsense]

We all understand the workings of a mathematical matrix--that's a given...

I teach University level Math - and believe me, its not a given !

This is the least of the points on which your post was mistaken, arrogant and rude.

Samuel Beckett would be turning in his grave !

[nosoyninja]

In the five years I've been a member of this forum I've seen disagreements, heated arguments and outright dust-ups but THIS is the rudest post I have ever read.

Not to mention the fact that now NOBODY is laughing at my awesome matrix meme pic! Sheesh! Anyway back to the topic:

Barr harris talks about the "diminished" part of this business, but I'd never heard of the augmented triad part. Very inetresting!

[mr. beaumont]

op:

Lighten up, Francis.


Reported.

[djangoles]

hello

In the ongoing quest to assimilate the fingerboard, I happened upon the Martino analogy of piano and guitar.

That is--and, as you know--he juxtaposes the heptatonic-plus-pentatonic nature of the piano (seven notes of the scale focused upon plus the five notes outside that scale) on one side, to what he visualizes as the multiplicative nature of the guitar--i.e., the four notes of the diminished chord multiplied by the three notes of the augmented triad.

The first half of the analogy seems readily apparent--i.e., the piano viewed as a seven-plus-five construct is fairly easy to accept, work from, etc.

It's the second, 'multiplicative' guitar system which I would like to explore, clarify, etc. If you are familiar with his system, please take a moment to clarify PM's four-times-three concept...

For example, the four notes of the diminished and the three notes of the augmented--by themselves--are simple terms. Why, then, reduce the fingerboard to the product of (i.e., the result of multiplying) those two terms? Or, to be more specific--how does PM achieve the reduction via a 'multiplying' of terms?

thank you!

7 + 5 = 12
4 x 3 = 12

[djangoles]

Diminished

B D F Ab
C Eb Gb A
Db E G Bb =

Chromatic Scale.... 3 sets of 4 notes or 3 x 4 = 12


Augmented

C E G#
Db F A
D F# A#
Eb G B =

Chromatic Scale.... 4 sets of 3 notes or 3 x 4 = 12

[GiantSteps]

I personally never understood why people need to over complicate themselves. Why would you want to think of the guitar fretboard as some sort of combination of either diminished or augmented triads. You can think about music in thousands of ways, some of which might actually be helpful, but as I see things everything is simpler the old way.

[MarkRhodes]

[QUOTE=mr. beaumont;378373

Lighten up, Francis.

[/QUOTE]

From "Stripes," right? Cracked me up. And I needed that just now.

[MarkRhodes]

Quandary: I edited Dean Taylor's post (reason: gratuitous profanity and obnoxiousness); however, several of you repeated the offending parts in your replies to (or about) him (and his post). I think those of you who did so might want to edit your quotations....

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Quandary: I edited Dean Taylor's post (reason: gratuitous profanity and obnoxiousness); however, several of you repeated the offending parts in your replies to (or about) him (and his post). I think those of you who did so might want to edit your quotations....

Done. I had originally quoted him so that he couldn't cover up his tracks and feign innocence. Enough people have seen it now.

[0zoro]

Yes, a good number of people have seen Mr Dean Taylor introduce himself. That was sufficient for me. I wish you luck in your quest for knowledge, companionship and happiness Mr Taylor. Goodbye.

[Flat]

I dearly love Martino's playing, but I've given up and now think his analyses and explanations are one big extended Andy Kaufman skit, like he's playing a post-doctoral Nigel Tufnel character, all tongue-in-cheek and goes to eleven. It's the only way I can reconcile things.

[fumblefingers]

I laughed out loud at the Morpheus poster, and

I'm sorry that I missed the rude response that has caused all the hub-bub.


I tend to agree that there is no need to over-analyze or complicate things with regards to fret board understanding.