Dani Rabin rant

[djg]

life's too short

[joe2758]

life's too short

unless you're bored at work

[brent.h]

I like a lot of his content because he has this shredder-muso perspective. He tends to overexplain many things (rhythm, chord-scale, etc.), but sometimes bits and pieces of those overexplanations help me see the guitar slightly differently.

Funny delivery that caters to a type of guy. High testosterone sometimes.

[Hep To The Jive]

So can YouTubers.

(not Christian obvs … never Christian.)

Yea Charlie was a killer YouTuber!

[Christian Miller]

I like a lot of his content because he has this shredder-muso perspective. He tends to overexplain many things (rhythm, chord-scale, etc.), but sometimes bits and pieces of those overexplanations help me see the guitar slightly differently.

Funny delivery that caters to a type of guy. High testosterone sometimes.

I find it a bit try hard. Thousands disagree.

He is genuinely funny sometimes.

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[Christian Miller]

So can YouTubers.

(not Christian obvs … never Christian.)

The whole rich human zoo can be found in YouTube comments. I’ve become immune to both abuse and praise.


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[Irishmuso]

I like a lot of his content because he has this shredder-muso perspective. He tends to overexplain many things (rhythm, chord-scale, etc.), but sometimes bits and pieces of those overexplanations help me see the guitar slightly differently.

Funny delivery that caters to a type of guy. High testosterone sometimes.

I don't think I am that 'type of guy' but who knows? In any event, Dani imho knows quite a lot and even if he comes across as 'how can you not know this?' , he seems determined to explain why you should know it. A lot of people could learn a lot from him.

[brent.h]

Yah. There were a few times what he said unlocked something in my brain. I especially liked his video on 12 keys is a waste of time thing. Clickbaity title but the info is so so good and thought out.

[Hep To The Jive]

Another banger from Dani That's why we love him

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1A7iKELe6b/

[Christian Miller]

Yah. There were a few times what he said unlocked something in my brain. I especially liked his video on 12 keys is a waste of time thing. Clickbaity title but the info is so so good and thought out.

It’s not a waste of time.


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[Hep To The Jive]

It’s not a waste of time.


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On the guitar it kind of is.

[brent.h]

That's just the title, though. Content is something else.

I can see both why learning stuff in different keys is important (part of my tunes practice routine) and why it's not soooo important. Shapes (also part of my tunes routine) can make the guitar 'key agnostic'.

[pamosmusic]

On the guitar it kind of is.

Beg to differ but alright

[djg]

[Christian Miller]

That's just the title, though. Content is something else.

I can see both why learning stuff in different keys is important (part of my tunes practice routine) and why it's not soooo important. Shapes (also part of my tunes routine) can make the guitar 'key agnostic'.

You’d think, but I think this is overstated

For instance, purely from a muscle memory perspective, the frets get closer as you move up the neck. Even if you use the exact same fingerings, B will feel slightly different to Bb.

Anyway, I prefer to practice through tunes rather than cycles etc, but it’s absolutely not a waste of time if you want to do that. It will make you a stronger player.


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[John A.]

Beg to differ but alright

Maybe not a waste of time, but doing all tunes in all keys is maybe overkill, and if one’s time constrained maybe not the highest priority. A compromise I sometimes do is practice a tune in C, G, F, Bb, Eb, Ab. That usually covers any key a singer is likely to call and reinforces understanding the functional harmony of a tune.

I think the reasons for learning a tune in multiple keys on guitar are somewhat different from other instruments (different technique/postional/register issues from, say, piano). With guitar, it’s less about dealing with physical differences of different keys and more about learning to overcome the tendency to think of a tune as a series of grips and instead understand it as a form and harmonic framework. For that, a few keys is as helpful as 12. At least that’s what I’ve found. No doubt, ymmv.

[pamosmusic]

Maybe not a waste of time, but doing all tunes in all keys is maybe overkill, and if one’s time constrained maybe not the highest priority. A compromise I sometimes do is practice a tune in C, G, F, B, Eb, Ab. That usually covers any key a singer is likely to call and reinforces understanding the functional harmony of a tune.

I think the reasons for learning a tune in multiple keys on guitar are somewhat different from other instruments (different technique/postional/register issues from, say, piano). With guitar, it’s less about dealing with physical differences of different keys and more about learning to overcome the tendency to think of a tune as a series of grips and instead understand it as a form and harmonic framework. For that, a few keys is as helpful as 12. At least that’s what I’ve found. No doubt, ymmv.

Im not watching the video, but no one on the thread has said we’re talking about playing tunes in all twelve keys. Just practicing in all twelve keys.

And Christian sort of pointed out the obvious there — every time you move up a position, you’re playing a very slightly different instrument. If you never practice your scales in B, will you be absolutely crippled in B?

On a piano or a saxophone, yes.

On guitar, no.

But I think you’d be surprised how much the slight feeling of discomfort you get in keys you don’t know can matter. You’ll be a little sloppier, a little more guarded and cautious, have a little less vocabulary. In the aggregate, that really matters and you just don’t sound as good.

In away the sax has an advantage because they walk away from that experience going “oh my god that was awful, I need to practice in B.” And the guitar player walks away going “ah well, not really my night” and keeps playing in C and F all day.

And for the record, I do practice tunes in all twelve keys. I think it helps me to memorize and internalize tunes, as well as learn more music faster because I recognize chord tunes that share common chord progressions much more quickly. For whatever that’s worth.

[pamosmusic]

The more I teach, the more I notice how often people’s abstract feelings of discomfort playing with others can be traced back to really concrete things.

Someone says they just don’t feel confident when they play with others. Or they just don’t sound as good as they do when they practice. Or they can’t play with the fluency they do when they’re practicing.

Obviously some of that is just playing live. As soon as someone else is listening, you’re just 80% as good as you were before they got there and that’s just life.

But I really think a ton of it has to do with people suddenly not being able to dictate tempo or key or whatever. Maybe your track has that tune 10 clicks slower, or you don’t really play a lot of blues in Eb. And it might not seem like it matters, but that stuff just manifests in feeling shaky.

[Hep To The Jive]

Maybe not a waste of time, but doing all tunes in all keys is maybe overkill, and if one’s time constrained maybe not the highest priority. A compromise I sometimes do is practice a tune in C, G, F, B, Eb, Ab. That usually covers any key a singer is likely to call and reinforces understanding the functional harmony of a tune.

I think the reasons for learning a tune in multiple keys on guitar are somewhat different from other instruments (different technique/postional/register issues from, say, piano). With guitar, it’s less about dealing with physical differences of different keys and more about learning to overcome the tendency to think of a tune as a series of grips and instead understand it as a form and harmonic framework. For that, a few keys is as helpful as 12. At least that’s what I’ve found. No doubt, ymmv.

I can understand form and harmonic framework of a tune just fine and still apply a series of grips to it as a practical approach. I don't think of notes in those grips when I play, does anyone? I can see where the scale degrees are, but it's just numbers. Can't do that on keys or trumpet, obviously.

But I agree with the keys you mentioned, only you mean Bb right....right?. If you want spend time practicing your jazz in key of B ok then, only you know if it's worth your time. I would be skeptical of a teacher who insist on that thou.

[Christian Miller]

The more I teach, the more I notice how often people’s abstract feelings of discomfort playing with others can be traced back to really concrete things.

Someone says they just don’t feel confident when they play with others. Or they just don’t sound as good as they do when they practice. Or they can’t play with the fluency they do when they’re practicing.

Obviously some of that is just playing live. As soon as someone else is listening, you’re just 80% as good as you were before they got there and that’s just life.

But I really think a ton of it has to do with people suddenly not being able to dictate tempo or key or whatever. Maybe your track has that tune 10 clicks slower, or you don’t really play a lot of blues in Eb. And it might not seem like it matters, but that stuff just manifests in feeling shaky.

That’s an interesting point.

I would say that after a long time of recording myself on gigs and putting my playing under the microscope I have come to the amazing conclusion that I play the tunes I know the best better than the ones I don’t - even if they have very obvious changes.

Tempo’s a big one. I learned from Peter Bernstein to practice in the cracks - try setting the clock to 184 instead of 180 or something. It can be surprisingly challenging.

When people slow down or speed up it’s usually because they are gravitating to a preferred, well practiced tempo.

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[John A.]

I can understand form and harmonic framework of a tune just fine and still apply a series of grips to it as a practical approach. I don't think of notes in those grips when I play, does anyone?

In my observation, yes, some people do. Not everyone, of course.

But I agree with the keys you mentioned, only you mean Bb right....right?. If you want spend time practicing your jazz in key of B ok then, only you know if it's worth your time. I would be skeptical of a teacher who insist on that thou.

Yes, I meant Bb.

[John A.]

Im not watching the video, but no one on the thread has said we’re talking about playing tunes in all twelve keys. Just practicing in all twelve keys.

I practice tunes. So practicing in all 12 keys means practicing tunes in all keys to me. But I don’t assume everyone understands practicing in all 12
keys the way I do or draws the same benefits (or lack thereof) as I, hence the YMMV qualifiers.

FWIW, for a long time I had a routine of playing through all modes of major and minor scales in all keys, single line and harmonized, plus arps of all that. So I HAVE practiced in all keys, but don’t find it especially productive anymore. Not a waste of time, but not the best use of it either.

[And Christian sort of pointed out the obvious there — every time you move up a position, you’re playing a very slightly different instrument. If you never practice your scales in B, will you be absolutely crippled in B?

On a piano or a saxophone, yes.

On guitar, no.

That was my point, except that I don’t experience a big difference in how one key feels vs. another. Maybe earlier on I did but I guess my personal history of playing with singers (and harmonica players in blues bands) from the get go and/or being the singer got rid of that discomfort a long time ago.

[QUOTE=pamosmusic;1471925] But I think you’d be surprised how much the slight feeling of discomfort you get in keys you don’t know can matter. You’ll be a little sloppier, a little more guarded and cautious, have a little less vocabulary. In the aggregate, that really matters and you just don’t sound as good.[quote]
I’m never surprised that some people find things hard that I find easy, or vice versa. But I’m old and have a lot of experience sucking at things that other people are good at and vice versa.

And for the record, I do practice tunes in all twelve keys. I think it helps me to memorize and internalize tunes, as well as learn more music faster because I recognize chord tunes that share common chord progressions much more quickly. For whatever that’s worth.

Aha! All I’m saying, BTW, is I think I can get that benefit from 6 as easily as 12, which leaves me more time for other things that need more attention. Other people strike different balances.