BH

[Bobby Timmons]

[AllanAllen]

Probably been discussed, but I can't find it with the search.

I saw Sheryl Bailey has a family of four G7, Bm7b5, Dm7, Fmaj7

and Barry Harris has a brothers and sisters chords, which is G7, Bb7, Db7, E7. I don't get this one.

[pamosmusic]

Probably been discussed, but I can't find it with the search.

I saw Sheryl Bailey has a family of four G7, Bm7b5, Dm7, Fmaj7

and Barry Harris has a brothers and sisters chords, which is G7, Bb7, Db7, E7. I don't get this one.

The family of four would map more onto Barry's "important chords"

[Mick-7]

Barry Harris has a brothers and sisters chords, which is G7, Bb7, Db7, E7. I don't get this one.

It's just the 7b9/dim.7 synonym, G7b9 (Ab-B-D-F, no root) = Bb7b9, Db7b9 & E7b9.

I saw Sheryl Bailey has a family of four G7, Bm7b5, Dm7, Fmaj7

G9 (B-D-F-A, no root) = Bm7b5. Dm7 = F6 (& Bm7b5b9, no root). But they're all diatonic to the key of C (V-VII-II-IV).

[AllanAllen]

Okay, that makes sense to me.

I've had success interchanging Abmaj7 and F-7 on bars 4-5 of Four (based on a passive comment Jeff said in a rhythm guitar video) and was looking for more substitutions to use in other places. It looks like that's the Sheryl Bailey one, (or the important chords, which I think I also saw Joe Diorio talk about in a video).

I should really be writing all this stuff down instead of learning it over and over in a 9 month cycle.

[pamosmusic]

Okay, that makes sense to me.

I've had success interchanging Abmaj7 and F-7 on bars 4-5 of Four (based on a passive comment Jeff said in a rhythm guitar video) and was looking for more substitutions to use in other places. It looks like that's the Sheryl Bailey one, (or the important chords, which I think I also saw Joe Diorio talk about in a video).

I should really be writing all this stuff down instead of learning it over and over in a 9 month cycle.

Yeah the family of four thing is using those arpeggios of each chord tone of the dominant when you're playing over the dominant -- so for G7, it's G7, Bm7(b5), Dm7, Fmaj7.

The Barry Harris diminished family is how you can (among other things) take that whole concept and use it over any one of the other three other dominant chords related to that G7 ... so Bb7, Db7, E7 (and their accompanying, important chords family of four whatever).

[Mick-7]

I should really be writing all this stuff down instead of learning it over and over in a 9 month cycle.

Just knowing chord synonyms will take you a long way, because you'll find that many chords can serve 2 or 3 functions.

For example:
| x-3-4-3-4-x | = Cm7b5 (root position), Ab9 (and it's b5 sub, D7#5b9), and Ebm6 (6th in bass) - so that's VIIm7(b5), V7, and IIm6 in Db Major.

[pamosmusic]

Just knowing chord synonyms will take you a long way, because you'll find that many chords can serve 2 or 3 functions.

For example:
| x-3-4-3-4-x | = Cm7b5 (root position), Ab9 (and it's b5 sub, D7#5b9), and Ebm6 (6th in bass) - so that's VIIm7(b5), V7, and IIm6 in Db Major.

And don’t forget the diminished seventh chord. Synonym for everything

[AllanAllen]

Yeah the synonyms were why I started writing out inversions. To see where they line up and go from there. It quickly got overwhelming trying to get all the grips together. But I should revisit that for m7b5. I need more ways to navigate that chord.

[pcjazz]

It quickly got overwhelming trying to get all the grips together. But I should revisit that for m7b5. I need more ways to navigate that chord.

So that’s why a systematic approach like Barry’s scales of chords in each of the drop voicing types can help to organize the overwhelming chaos. Minor 7 flat 5 is a m6 chord with the sixth in the bass, so run it through the m6dim scale in each drop form. Then try three-note and two-note versions by simply not playing the missing note(s). This may take a while!

[pamosmusic]

Yeah the synonyms were why I started writing out inversions. To see where they line up and go from there. It quickly got overwhelming trying to get all the grips together. But I should revisit that for m7b5. I need more ways to navigate that chord.

Yeah we’re sort of blending concepts now, but that’s part of the Harmony thing … if they’re synonyms you don’t need to learn them all. Just the one.

So everything is major 6, minor 6, or diminished.

Which is nice.

[Tal_175]

In most contexts, chord synonyms are nothing more than superficial observations that are aimed at memorizing fewer grips. In the case of Barry Harris's approach to harmony, they represent more profound insights into horizontal harmony. It's the difference between seeing harmony as certain vertical events versus seeing the events as just arbitrary snapshots of voice movements. Quite a different paradigm from cowboy chord view of harmony of the 20. century popular music.

[pamosmusic]

In most contexts, chord synonyms are nothing more than superficial observations that are aimed at memorizing fewer grips. In the case of Barry Harris's approach to harmony, they represent more profound insights into horizontal harmony. It's the difference between seeing harmony as certain vertical events versus seeing the events as just arbitrary snapshots of voice movements. Quite a different paradigm from cowboy chord view of harmony of the 20. century popular music.

True.

And also it has the effect of requiring fewer tools to play beautiful and complex harmony.

The scale of chords stuff can be as simple as some inversions of that one chord, and as complex as you have the patience to make it. For me, the simplicity is just as useful as the potential depth. To be fair, I'm a bit dense when it comes to chords. Don't know why that is.

[AllanAllen]

To be fair, I'm a bit dense when it comes to chords. Don't know why that is.

Because you play guitar. All this stuff is right there on a piano. I don't even play piano and when someone explains harmony to me with a piano I can understand what's happening by watching their fingers better than I could by actually playing the grips on my guitar.

Tension and release goes from two abstract words to black keys in the key of C and white keys.

[joe2758]

Not only does it streamline the grips, but it gets you out of a grip mindset. Here's a very simple exercise.
So you are practicing running your 6th dim scale up and down. You can raise any note a half step before going up to the next chord. The raised note will either be a passing tone or an anticipation. Same with descending. You can do it with multiple notes.

[joe2758]

Because you play guitar. All this stuff is right there on a piano.

I think it is right there on a guitar too, in a different way. I was at Howard Reese workshop and a couple times he had the keys play stuff and said "Guitarists, pretend this is hard." Think about moving a complex chord up a piano chromatically.

[AllanAllen]

I think it is right there on a guitar too, in a different way. I was at Howard Reese workshop and a couple times he had the keys play stuff and said "Guitarists, pretend this is hard." Think about moving a complex chord up a piano chromatically.

Yeah, so we have transposition on our side. I'm not going to argue that, but foundational things like note names are abstract on guitar. There are 4-5 places to play the same tone.

And we don't spell out chords as 1 3 5 7, they are grips. A bar chord, the first one most learn is 1 5 1 3 5 1, chord tones.

To be fair, I'm talking about learning guitar in the traditional way, learning guitar songs and playing along by ear. Not the academic way many of us, on the forum, have pivoted to.

[pamosmusic]

I think it is right there on a guitar too, in a different way. I was at Howard Reese workshop and a couple times he had the keys play stuff and said "Guitarists, pretend this is hard." Think about moving a complex chord up a piano chromatically.

Haaaaaaaa

But yeah that’s a good point.

There is something pedagogical or conceptual or whatever that lends itself to thinking more pianistically. Part of it is definitely that you can’t “miss” … just grabbing notes sounds good. Directionless, but pretty. But that’s not the only thing … I can’t put my finger on it.

Ive spent way more time with the single note stuff and there’s something similar there. Where I could just smoke those scalar lines pretty quickly after getting them under my fingers … they’re not particularly guitaristic or anything, but they just kind of remove some aural or conceptual block or something that lets them kind of fly. It’s interesting.

[joe2758]

That's funny, I'm the complete opposite (which is why I take lessons from you)

[garybaldy]

Probably been discussed, but I can't find it with the search.

I saw Sheryl Bailey has a family of four G7, Bm7b5, Dm7, Fmaj7

and Barry Harris has a brothers and sisters chords, which is G7, Bb7, Db7, E7. I don't get this one.

I don't think Mike Hayes actually mentions brothers and sisters in this video but he illustrates their application.