Things I learned from Barry Harris Study Group

[tamirgal]

Everyone on this thread seem to have goals, my current goal is to finish ~10 transcriptions of Barry solos, half of which would be Blues tunes. I don't plan to learn these solos note for note on the guitar, but I do plan to extract motive, patterns and licks, and add those to my practice plan.
I already learned a great deal so far, even without my instrument. I learned that the important arpeggios for the dominant scale are indeed important. I learned he has more important arpeggios for the major scale. I learned some more mini motives that can be added to his 5432 phrases. I learned he likes to hit the b6 note on the dominant scale (he has some pet licks that nicely bring out this note). And In general I feel I get to know him better this way

I think it's not too bad for a plonker.. (have no idea what that means )

Cheers,
Tamir

[tamirgal]

Cool.

I’ve done transcriptions away from my instrument just checking to see if I wrote down the phrases right. It’s good ear training if you don’t lean on the piano or guitar to get every note.

I write the phrase inside guitar pro (or sibelius, whatever), then I hit play, and the software play the phrase for me. That's pretty cool. Actually the most difficult bit for me is to get the rhythm written right.

[joe2758]

Everyone on this thread seem to have goals, my current goal is to finish ~10 transcriptions of Barry solos, half of which would be Blues tunes. I don't plan to learn these solos note for note on the guitar, but I do plan to extract motive, patterns and licks, and add those to my practice plan.
I already learned a great deal so far, even without my instrument. I learned that the important arpeggios for the dominant scale are indeed important. I learned he has more important arpeggios for the major scale. I learned some more mini motives that can be added to his 5432 phrases. I learned he likes to hit the b6 note on the dominant scale (he has some pet licks that nicely bring out this note). And In general I feel I get to know him better this way

I think it's not too bad for a plonker.. (have no idea what that means )

Cheers,
Tamir

I'd love to see the motives that fit with 5 4 3 2!

[Petimar]

I learned he likes to hit the b6 note on the dominant scale (he has some pet licks that nicely bring out this note).

Barrys dominant/diminished scale is 1 2 3 4 5 b6 b7 7 1, thus alternating C7 and Bdim chords. Took me a while to find it as it is not in the first BH Workshop book.

[joe2758]

did Eb blues and rhythm changes in 5th-ish position. So that's 4 of my 5 positions now. same as before worked up to 180, tried really hard at 190 but couldn't keep up, and ran the scales with four beats rest or so in between at 200.

you guys see Chris put up a new TILF Barry Harris vid? about triplets

edit: did the upper and lower register of the position as well, i find this very solidifying of the position

[grahambop]

I like Chris’s scales on Donna Lee, I’ve been playing those this evening (quite slowly though).

Unfortunately cut my finger making sandwiches today, now have a big plaster on my LH third finger which is a bit of a nuisance when playing!

[joe2758]

...... (quite slowly though).

if you say by quite slowly you mean 200 bpm i'm going to quit.

[grahambop]

No it’s more like 120 at the moment!

[christianm77]

Right here’s a practice suggestion for y’all. I used to get roasted on the scale outlines but I practiced this for a few months and now I can do it as of about 2014

1) Can you play individual scales 1-7-1 at tempo - yes or no?

If yes proceed to next point
If no, practice scales individually until you can do it

2) can you map the scales over the changes of any random tune and know how it all works?

If yes proceed to next point
If no, practice doing this - away from the instrument is fine

3) play the scales in tempo (200+) but leave a gap as you move to the next one - i.e. don’t try to play everything in time yet. Do a different tune each day to develop the flexibility.

The 1-7-1 thing has at least a quarter notes thinking space built in, but this may not be enough at first.

4) practice every new tune at tempo building up the way Barry does in class

Slow metronome practice is good for some stuff, but otoh to play and think fast you need to practice it at speed.

[joe2758]

thanks Christian, sounds like i’m on the right track!

[wzpgsr]

3) play the scales in tempo (200+) but leave a gap as you move to the next one - i.e. don’t try to play everything in time yet. Do a different tune each day to develop the flexibility.

The 1-7-1 thing has at least a quarter notes thinking space built in, but this may not be enough at first.
.

What you talking bout, Willis? Are you suggesting that if you can play for the first two bars don’t force the third if it’s going to make you stumble, wait for the fourth?

[christianm77]

What you talking bout, Willis? Are you suggesting that if you can play for the first two bars don’t force the third if it’s going to make you stumble, wait for the fourth?

No. Just have a little pause to have a think and get your hands in position. then play the third bar when you are good and ready.

Many people try to play in tempo before they are ready. It's OK to practice out of time - with little pauses - until you are ready to put it together.

You are thinking in modules not individual notes. You prepare the modules, prepare their application, then practice linking them together, then practice running everything together in time.

[christianm77]

OK here's a video of me to put it together on the bebop mount Everest that is George Shearing's Conception.

Explanation is not the clearest. Chords are as follows

AABA

A section

| Ebm7b5 | Ab7b9 | Db^7 Bm7 | A^7 Ab^7 |
| Abm7 Db7 | Gb7 F7 | Bb7 A7 | Ab7 G7 |
| F#m7 B7 | E^7 A^7 | Em7 Ab7 | Db^7 ||

B section

| F#m7 | B7b9b5 | E^7 F#m7 | Abm7 Db7 |
| Gm7 C7 | F#m7 B7 | Em7 | A7 |

Somebody wanted me to post a video of me practicing this stuff so here it so you can enjoy my dirty laundry in public ;-)

This tune is tough on the outlining. Lots of 1 2 3 5.

[christianm77]

[Petimar]

2) can you map the scales over the changes of any random tune and know how it all works?

I don't know what BH has folks play on measure long or longer half diminished phrases. I'm working on What is This Thing Called Love? What scale do you play for G half dim amd D half dim? Ascending or descending?

[grahambop]

I don't know what BH has folks play on measure long or longer half diminished phrases. I'm working on What is This Thing Called Love? What scale do you play for G half dim amd D half dim? Ascending or descending?

I think Chris discusses some options for this tune here:

[christianm77]

I don't know what BH has folks play on measure long or longer half diminished phrases. I'm working on What is This Thing Called Love? What scale do you play for G half dim amd D half dim? Ascending or descending?

m7b5 is a dominant chord a major third lower, because the m7b5 is 3 5 b7 and 9 of a dominant 9th chord.

So on the Gm7b5 I play Eb dominant and on the Dm7b5 I play Bb dominant

[christianm77]

You can also view them as m6 chords with the 6th in the bass.

Under no circumstances view them as m7b5 or half dim chords. Life is too short.

[wzpgsr]

m7b5 is a dominant chord a major third lower, because the m7b5 is 3 5 b7 and 9 of a dominant 9th chord.

So on the Gm7b5 I play Eb dominant and on the Dm7b5 I play Bb dominant

Do you give the chord tones of the dominant the same weight when playing over the m7b5 as you would over the dominant itself?

[joe2758]

you guys still plugging away at the lesson?

[matt.guitarteacher]

you guys still plugging away at the lesson?

I've been kind of slammed the last week.

I've played through here and there. I don't have as much technical problem as just learning these things themselves. More like hearing form and pattern at tempo. I can kind of do the dominant vs major thing by ear at 180, but at 200 I'm actually thinking, and not fast enough. So, it's very good practice for that for me.

I think what Christian was talking about above is good practice. That would really isolate whether it's a technical problem versus more of a form problem. With the blues progression I mainly practice from bar five on, then put it together. The blues, to me, always presents a quintessential "form problem", if you don't break it up. If you play straight through every time, you'll always be exponentially better at the beginning bets, simply because you play them more times.

Anyway, I am only doing the lower octave patterns for the ones which have two octaves, but I'm doing five positions. Just don't have the time or interest to do both right now. I think honestly if I get the lower octaves together, I'll be able to do the higher without too much extra work. Generally spend more time in that upper octave and position anyway.

Why don't we put in some short-term benchmarks just for fun and to keep interest on-going? What are there about three weeks? I need to go back and look. Could make this week "170 week", then 180 the next, and and then a final version at the end. Also, if everyone's aiming for about the same easy tempo, it's not a competition or anything. "How many ways can you play assignments at 170?" ....kind of thing. I think I could do the upper octave thing at that tempo probably too.

[joe2758]

yeah mine is definitely a technical issue unfortunately-- but that's what I get for never attempting to play at challenging speeds

[rlrhett]

Plugging away. I’ll do a one week video for s&@$s and giggles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[joe2758]

I'll make a vid if I hit 200, otherwise I'll post one at the end of the semester or whatever you call it

[christianm77]

Do you give the chord tones of the dominant the same weight when playing over the m7b5 as you would over the dominant itself?

Yes. That's the basic way we do ....

Dm7b5 G7b9 Cm --> Bb7 Bo7 Cm basically

If you want to bring out the m7b5, you can play the m6/dim (Am6 = F#m7b5 for instance.)

Dm7b5 G7b9 Cm --> Dm6 Do7 Cm