Satin Doll - Robert Conti's Ticket to Improv

**MikeS** · 03-10-2017, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

That's what I have. Got it Christmas. Much better picture than the one I had before. Sound is better too. It's a nice piece of equipment.

Thanks, I'm looking forward to getting it.

Mike

**MikeS** · 03-10-2017, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

After a few days of holding the pick b/w thumb and middle (or 2nd) finger (because I had hurt my index), I put the pick back where it belongs this morning and gave this a go.

Good one. It looks like you have Conti's fingering protocol down pretty good.

Mike

**Dennygomez** · 03-10-2017, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by snailspace

No pressure on the posting -- put something up when you feel ready, but don't worry about whether it's "good enough" for us to see. We're fans, not critics.

I think the pressure is good. I mean accountability. Regular uploads means regular effort. Plus I want my buds to think I'm a cool "jazz man"!

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**Dennygomez** · 03-10-2017, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

After a few days of holding the pick b/w thumb and middle (or 2nd) finger

Nice! It sounds like another solo that way. Great example, really!

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**lawson-stone** · 03-10-2017, 12:37 PM

I'll go ahead and post my Mm. 1-16, though I'd like to get the tempo up a bit more.

I'm having a lot of Epiphone love, so these are my two budget Epiphones.

**Dennygomez** · 03-10-2017, 01:02 PM

Nice. Can I test video here?

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**lawson-stone** · 03-10-2017, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dennygomez

Nice. Can I test video here?
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Dude, you just named the elephant in the room!

**MarkRhodes** · 03-10-2017, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dennygomez

Nice. Can I test video here?

Lookin' good! I don't know whether the guy gets the girl. He seems more concerned that the girl may get him. ("I'll give it a whirl but I ain't for no girl catchin' me...Switch-a-rooney!")

**Dennygomez** · 03-10-2017, 03:24 PM

The lyric "telephone number, well you know" sounds like an excuse. "You know how it goes, can't win 'em all"

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**MarkRhodes** · 03-10-2017, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dennygomez

The lyric "telephone number, well you know" sounds like an excuse. "You know how it goes, can't win 'em all"

Yes, it does. And "Doin' my rhumbas with uno" sounds like he's dancing alone.

**Doublea A** · 03-10-2017, 03:42 PM

I ordered my copy on March 1 and still no sign of it. Would somebody be willing to send me a PDF version of the first 16 bars ? before I fall too far behind

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**Dennygomez** · 03-10-2017, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Yes, it does. And "Doin' my rhumbas with uno" sounds like he's dancing alone.

He's doing SOMETHING alone! And that's the only time he calls her MY Satin Doll.
I really do have an image of this woman in her shimmering satin dress, weaving through the night club. Her cigarette holder waves the air as if touching each perfect note floating above them from the bandstand. (Featuring, of course, the amazing guitar styling of someone who looks a lot like me. )
So, a guy can dream!

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**snailspace** · 03-10-2017, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Doublea A

I ordered my copy on March 1 and still no sign of it. Would somebody be willing to send me a PDF version of the first 16 bars ? before I fall too far behind

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That's probably not a good idea. Before I asked around here about any interest in a study group, I got in touch with Mike -- the production manager at Pinnacle -- asking if they had any objection to us studying publicly using Conti's materials. Mike was very encouraging, and said we were welcome to share videos of ourselves playing lines from the DVD, but cautioned against sharing any of the published content itself, since it is copyrighted material.

Have you received an email notifying you that your DVD has shipped? If so, there should be a tracking number so you can check on the progress of the package. If you have not received a shipping notice, your best bet would be to contact Conti/Pinnacle and ask about your order.

The link on the bottom is to their email, but the one on top is to the Conti site. They usually have someone available at this time for a live chat conversation. They're very responsive, and should be able to give you an answer today if you start there.

Live Chat: How to play jazz guitar? No Modes No Scales(R) | Robert Conti Jazz Guitar

email: Contact | RobertConti.com

**MarkRhodes** · 03-10-2017, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Doublea A

I ordered my copy on March 1 and still no sign of it.

That seems like an unusually long time. They usually mail the day they get an order, or the next day if the order comes in after "today's" mail has gone out.

**Doublea A** · 03-10-2017, 04:13 PM

I will contact them tonight

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**lawson-stone** · 03-10-2017, 07:31 PM

I enjoy playing with these projects and different approaches. This is a little faster than my previous, and it's the Aebersold Track from the Duke Ellington set, which is a bit more tricky, not as oriented to us beginners. You can't hear the cue for the top of bar 1 as clearly as the other track, but you have to count it. Still, I thought it was worthwhile to play with this.

The guitar is my 1970's Aria Pro II PE180, the "Poor Man's L5ces" but sometimes I feel like I'm playing a real L5, this thing is just wonderful.

**losaltosjoe** · 03-10-2017, 08:20 PM

Hi Lawson,

Nice playing! I downloaded the Aebersold Track from Amazon last night and I agree with your assessment that it's a bit trickier than some of my other backing tracks. I'll be working with it over the weekend and have bars 1-16 posted shortly.

- Joe

**losaltosjoe** · 03-10-2017, 09:41 PM

Using BIAB, Conti's chord changes, with a 2 bar intro. Still trying to work out video and mic issues. But time to get something posted.

**lawson-stone** · 03-10-2017, 10:01 PM

That's nice! Really wonderful tone. What's the guitar you're using?

**lawson-stone** · 03-10-2017, 10:10 PM

This solo is intriguing to me. On the surface, it sounds pretty conventional, but digging into it I'm finding a lot that's genuinely interesting, and a lot that I "should" have known but would never have thought to play.

Take the opening 4 notes: E-F-A-C. Played over a Dm7, where it's 9th, 3rd, 5th 7th, a rootless arpeggio starting on the 9th. Then again in m. 5 played over an Em7, it's Root, b2/b9th, 4th, #5th relative to Em7. Same line, but pitched against the different chord, it has a different effect. For my entire "life" as a jazz guy, on "Satin Doll," I've consciously or not, shifted my lines up a whole step with the shift in the changes up to Em7-A7. Conti stays put, plays the same "stem" of his line and then on beat 3 of the measure moves to something closer to the chord.

I just find that little move interesting because it's exactly the kind of really simple thing that I never think of. Easy, but left on my own, I doubt I'd have ever found it. Too busy hunting for something to play over Em7-A7.

**losaltosjoe** · 03-11-2017, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

That's nice! Really wonderful tone. What's the guitar you're using?

Thanks Lawson. I'm playing a 1996 Gibson L5 CES through a Brunetti Singleman (16-watt 1x12 combo Class A with two 6V6 tubes). I'm using my daughter's Blue Yeti USB Microphone.

**lawson-stone** · 03-11-2017, 09:22 AM

From the partial view, I figured an L5ces or a really nice clone like the Aria PE180. Right now I settle for the clones (Aria Pro II PE180 and an Epiphone Elitist Broadway) but someday I'm going to pull the trigger on buying an L5ces.

**MarkRhodes** · 03-11-2017, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

This solo is intriguing to me. On the surface, it sounds pretty conventional, but digging into it I'm finding a lot that's genuinely interesting, and a lot that I "should" have known but would never have thought to play.

Take the opening 4 notes: E-F-A-C. Played over a Dm7, where it's 9th, 3rd, 5th 7th, a rootless arpeggio starting on the 9th. Then again in m. 5 played over an Em7, it's Root, b2/b9th, 4th, #5th relative to Em7. Same line, but pitched against the different chord, it has a different effect. For my entire "life" as a jazz guy, on "Satin Doll," I've consciously or not, shifted my lines up a whole step with the shift in the changes up to Em7-A7. Conti stays put, plays the same "stem" of his line and then on beat 3 of the measure moves to something closer to the chord.

Conti does that sort of thing a lot. In his DVD "Jazz Lines" he gets into the "nuts and bolts" of it. I talked to him once and asked him if he knew Carol Kaye. He does. Their approach is not identical but there's a real overlap in that a) they can play and b) they can teach and c) what they teach is to keep things simple. Simpler than many of us think possible.

**MikeS** · 03-11-2017, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

This solo is intriguing to me. On the surface, it sounds pretty conventional, but digging into it I'm finding a lot that's genuinely interesting, and a lot that I "should" have known but would never have thought to play.

Take the opening 4 notes: E-F-A-C. Played over a Dm7, where it's 9th, 3rd, 5th 7th, a rootless arpeggio starting on the 9th. Then again in m. 5 played over an Em7, it's Root, b2/b9th, 4th, #5th relative to Em7. Same line, but pitched against the different chord, it has a different effect. For my entire "life" as a jazz guy, on "Satin Doll," I've consciously or not, shifted my lines up a whole step with the shift in the changes up to Em7-A7. Conti stays put, plays the same "stem" of his line and then on beat 3 of the measure moves to something closer to the chord.

I just find that little move interesting because it's exactly the kind of really simple thing that I never think of. Easy, but left on my own, I doubt I'd have ever found it. Too busy hunting for something to play over Em7-A7.

I believe this is an example where Conti simplifies it more by playing an Fmaj7 form over the Dm7 and G7. In his book The Jazz Lines he says, "If you want to play the unaltered extensions over a G7 or Dm7, simply think of the Major 7th form One Whole Step Down from G7 (i.e. Fma7), as the notes of any Fma7 form will state all of the unaltered G7 extensions."

**lawson-stone** · 03-11-2017, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by MikeS

I believe this is an example where Conti simplifies it more by playing an Fmaj7 form over the Dm7 and G7. In his book The Jazz Lines he says, "If you want to play the unaltered extensions over a G7 or Dm7, simply think of the Major 7th form One Whole Step Down from G7 (i.e. Fma7), as the notes of any Fma7 form will state all of the unaltered G7 extensions."

Makes sense, I mean the key is C, and the ii-V7-I basically is a tension movement. Mostly we think in terms of it as an elaborated V7-I, but the ii is easily seen as an elaboration of the IV chord.

What intrigues me is how it works over the Em7-A7.