Satin Doll - Robert Conti's Ticket to Improv

**MarkRhodes** · 03-11-2017, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by MikeS

I believe this is an example where Conti simplifies it more by playing an Fmaj7 form over the Dm7 and G7. In his book The Jazz Lines he says, "If you want to play the unaltered extensions over a G7 or Dm7, simply think of the Major 7th form One Whole Step Down from G7 (i.e. Fma7), as the notes of any Fma7 form will state all of the unaltered G7 extensions."

Conti thinks a lot in terms of major chord forms. F major 6 is the same thing as D minor 7. (F6 = F A C D; D-7 = D F A C.) Joe Pass liked to use the IVMaj 7 arp over a V7 chord.) And if you want the altered extensions, you move up a minor 3rd. (Or, in this case, AbMaj7 = Ab C Eb G, or b9, 11, #5 (technically, D#) and root.) It's much easier to "compute" this way. But that may be another study group!

Though let us not forget, Conti has said he would answer some of our questions. (Probably via video.) We can keep track of the things we would most like for him to tell us.

**MikeS** · 03-11-2017, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Makes sense, I mean the key is C, and the ii-V7-I basically is a tension movement. Mostly we think in terms of it as an elaborated V7-I, but the ii is easily seen as an elaboration of the IV chord.

What intrigues me is how it works over the Em7-A7.

I agree, it is intriguing how it can also work over the Em7-A7 chords.

**MikeS** · 03-11-2017, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Conti thinks a lot in terms of major chord forms. F major 6 is the same thing as D minor 7. (F6 = F A C D; D-7 = D F A C.) Joe Pass liked to use the IVMaj 7 arp over a V7 chord.) And if you want the altered extensions, you move up a minor 3rd. (Or, in this case, AbMaj7 = Ab C Eb G, or b9, 11, #5 (technically, D#) and root.) It's much easier to "compute" this way. But that may be another study group!

Though let us not forget, Conti has said he would answer some of our questions. (Probably via video.) We can keep track of the things we would most like for him to tell us.

Conti also uses a similar approach as Joe Pass if you want the altered extensions. Conti says to move up a half step from the V7. Different approach same results. Every interesting if we get to another study group.

**losaltosjoe** · 03-11-2017, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

From the partial view, I figured an L5ces or a really nice clone like the Aria PE180. Right now I settle for the clones (Aria Pro II PE180 and an Epiphone Elitist Broadway) but someday I'm going to pull the trigger on buying an L5ces.

Hi Lawson -- If you look in the background of my Bars 1-16 video you will see a Yamaha AE1200S, which is a mid-1980s Japanese clone of an L5. The Yamahas and Arias are really fine guitars and great values. The Gibson L5 was my mid-life crisis and/or a reward for raising 4 children.

**Dennygomez** · 03-11-2017, 02:36 PM

Is there a mistake in the tabs? I see a G natural at the end of bar 14

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**lawson-stone** · 03-11-2017, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dennygomez

Is there a mistake in the tabs? I see a G natural at the end of bar 14

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Looks like they just left it out of the tab. I play it on the 4th string, 5th fret.

**snailspace** · 03-11-2017, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Doublea A

I will contact them tonight

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Just curious -- what did you find out?

**lawson-stone** · 03-11-2017, 04:31 PM

Partway there for the next section, up through m. 20 at a pretty decent tempo.

The upcoming week promises to be a little crazy and I might not have time to do another clip, so I'm posting this much for now. Also experimenting with my recording technique a bit.

**Doublea A** · 03-11-2017, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by snailspace

Just curious -- what did you find out?

I found out that it is somewhere between Richmond BC (West Coast just north of Seattle) and Toronto (Central East just north of Buffalo). I am hoping that it gets to me Monday or Tuesday.

**snailspace** · 03-11-2017, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Doublea A

I found out that it is somewhere between Richmond BC (West Coast just north of Seattle) and Toronto (Central East just north of Buffalo). I am hoping that it gets to me Monday or Tuesday.

Somewhere between BC and Toronto? That's quite a range. I hope it arrives soon.

When you get it, I anticipate that you'll be able to learn it enough to get caught up pretty quickly. No rush, though -- post any section(s) you want, whenever you feel ready.

Glad you were able to track it down and get at least some idea of its whereabouts.

**lickerz101** · 03-13-2017, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by MikeS

Good job on the head too. What backing track did you use?

Mike

Backing track is from Hal Leonard Guitar Play along Vol. 16.Thanks Mike

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**Doublea A** · 03-13-2017, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by snailspace

Somewhere between BC and Toronto? That's quite a range. I hope it arrives soon.

When you get it, I anticipate that you'll be able to learn it enough to get caught up pretty quickly. No rush, though -- post any section(s) you want, whenever you feel ready.

Glad you were able to track it down and get at least some idea of its whereabouts.

The Robert Conti DVD arrived today. I am already working on it !! I hope to post something by the end of the week.

**snailspace** · 03-13-2017, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Doublea A

The Robert Conti DVD arrived today. I am already working on it !! I hope to post something by the end of the week.

That's great -- thanks for letting us know!

**MarkRhodes** · 03-13-2017, 08:21 PM

Thought I'd play the next 8 bars (-the bridge) in context. Wound up muffing something easy in the bridge but kept going and forgot to stop, so I played the whole solo. May do this again---I think it's getting better but it's still not what it should be.

**snailspace** · 03-13-2017, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Thought I'd play the next 8 bars (-the bridge) in context. Wound up muffing something easy in the bridge but kept going and forgot to stop, so I played the whole solo. May do this again---I think it's getting better but it's still not what it should be.

Sounds good, Mark! Those double-stops at the end tend to trip me up, but you nailed them.

**andyb** · 03-14-2017, 03:00 AM

Bars 1-16

**snailspace** · 03-14-2017, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by andyb

Bars 1-16

Sounds good, Andy!

**lawson-stone** · 03-14-2017, 12:06 PM

I have to say I'm getting a lot out of watching the instructional videos. I didn't think just watching him do the fingering would be that interesting, but his overall content and advice is hitting me right where I'm needing it. He tosses in just a tad of working-theory just when it's helpful.

Here's my take up through the bridge, mm. 1-24. I still feel a little rough on mm 23-24.

Also, I tried a different approach to recording. Normally I go with my amp, play the background through another amp, mic them or go direct to a box that sends them to my iPhone. For this I just plugged everything into the box and then into the computer, recording with Screenflow. I was actually pretty pleased at how well it turned out.

**snailspace** · 03-14-2017, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I have to say I'm getting a lot out of watching the instructional videos. I didn't think just watching him do the fingering would be that interesting, but his overall content and advice is hitting me right where I'm needing it. He tosses in just a tad of working-theory just when it's helpful.

That sounded good! I agree about the DVD: there's a lot more to it than just "here's the solo . . . now you play it." It's more about playing, but Conti delivers quality information throughout.

**MarkRhodes** · 03-14-2017, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by snailspace

That sounded good! I agree about the DVD: there's a lot more to it than just "here's the solo . . . now you play it." It's more about playing, but Conti delivers quality information throughout.

His "off the sheet" tips can be very helpful. Also, something that doesn't mean much the first or second time you see it may make a lightbulb go on the third time and you say, "O, NOW I get it. Wow, that really helps."

**snailspace** · 03-14-2017, 11:24 PM

I'm still kind of sometimey with that chord lick in bars 13-14. This take is pretty typical of how it usually turns out. Using the 0.46 Jim Dunlop pick -- not quite as thin as what Conti uses, but I like it pretty well. After trying a variety of picks, I'm giving these a shot, because I can tend to get pretty heavy-handed at times. Subtlety is not one of my best things.

**MarkRhodes** · 03-15-2017, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by snailspace

I'm still kind of sometimey with that chord lick in bars 13-14. This take is pretty typical of how it usually turns out. Using the 0.46 Jim Dunlop pick -- not quite as thin as what Conti uses, but I like it pretty well.

I used the .38s for a good while, then the .46s. Now I'm using a Medium pick (.72 or so). For me, the .38s had too much 'give.' (I used to think they were "all give", as in providing no resistance at all.) I tend to play unplugged and they were just too danged quiet, especially for rhythm, where a bit (but just a bit) of "chunk" is an asset.

The .36s do provide a very even tone, though.

**MikeS** · 03-15-2017, 03:08 PM

This is a worthwhile study group. I hope it will continue with the rest of Robert Conti's TTI solos.

Mike

**snailspace** · 03-15-2017, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by MikeS

This is a worthwhile study groups. I hope it will continue with the rest of Robert Conti's TTI solos.

I agree, on both counts. Nice playing!

**lawson-stone** · 03-15-2017, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by MikeS

This is a worthwhile study groups. I hope it will continue with the rest of Robert Conti's TTI solos.

Mike

Something feels a little off with the tempo on this. I know Conti encourages us to make the solo our own, work with the phrasing, etc. But unless it's latency in the recording, I'm having trouble hearing the beat and catching the swing feel. Maybe (just me talking here, one opinion among many others, who are better players than me!) try playing it strictly as notated, making your personal touch in the tone, not the tempo?

I hope I'm not sounding harsh. I don't intend to discourage.