Frank Vignola Rhythm Changes

[TOMMO]

A word of caution. There is a typo in the chart which shows the 2nd chord as Bbdim, when it really should be Bdim, just as in the previous exercises.

Just checked that and I don't think it's a typo. First of all: it sounds good! Second: there's more examples where it's a Bdim in one measure and Bbdim in another (in the same etude). Then there is a chorus in F, where the second chord is Abdim (same as Fdim).

Another consideration: Bbdim is the same as Dbdim and Dbdim can function as a tritone sub for G7b9, if I'm not totally off-track....

[jasaco]

Just checked that and I don't think it's a typo. First of all: it sounds good! Second: there's more examples where it's a Bdim in one measure and Bbdim in another (in the same etude). Then there is a chorus in F, where the second chord is Abdim (same as Fdim).

Another consideration: Bbdim is the same as Dbdim and Dbdim can function as a tritone sub for G7b9, if I'm not totally off-track....

OK, thanks. I'll listen closer and look into it more...

[jasaco]

Just checked that and I don't think it's a typo. First of all: it sounds good! Second: there's more examples where it's a Bdim in one measure and Bbdim in another (in the same etude). Then there is a chorus in F, where the second chord is Abdim (same as Fdim).

Another consideration: Bbdim is the same as Dbdim and Dbdim can function as a tritone sub for G7b9, if I'm not totally off-track....

OK, thank you Tommo. I went back and rechecked it and, you're absolutely right (as is Frank) -- that certainly does work. I stand corrected. Imagine that, silly me, thinking I'd caught a typo in Frank's work. Pffftttt!

Working on the steel guitar version now...

[jasaco]

And now, as promised, for your listening and dancing pleasure, I give you exercise 'Basics-5', adapted for the C6 electric cheese slicer...

[rlrhett]

No. 3. Sorry about the boring camera angle.

I am really liking these exercises. I find the little melodies to be fun and memorable. They stick in my head. This whole experiment is new for me. I usually don't learn melodies verbatim. Most of the material I have will say something like, "try playing an arpeggio starting with the root over each chord. Then target the third, etc..." I'm not thinking about any of that for these exercises. I'm just playing the notes. I don't know if that is good or bad, but I'm sure enjoying it more! It feels more like music and less like math.

I also am liking the discipline of recording myself for this study group. Listening to yourself play is a little like seeing yourself naked in the mirror. It is a bit jarring to see all the flaws; but you also get to say to yourself, "hey, you're not so bad".

As far as singing the notes, that seems to be the only way for me. If I don't have the melody in my head, it's not coming out. I don't have good enough singing by sight reading to just sing without the guitar, but working out the tunes I am definitely putting the guitar aside a little and just singing as I learn the melodies. In fact, I notice that when I stop singing the notes (or humming, or just mentally playing it) and focus on fingering or the instrument I make more mistakes. I just hope that when the exercises get more complicated the music won't become too difficult to sing.

[TOMMO]

Imagine that, silly me, thinking I'd caught a typo in Frank's work. Pffftttt!

Well, the first time I saw Bbdim following a Bb I thought that it was a mistake or typo myself but seeing it in the following etudes again I played the chord progression - it sounded good and logical - and I started thinking how this would fit...and then it seemed to make sense.

[TOMMO]

Here's something interesting I found in "The Berklee Book Of Jazz Harmony" in the chapter about diminished 7th chords:

"Auxiliary diminished chords are created by lowering the 3,5 and 7 of Maj7 or V7. I°7 is used to alternate with I6 or IMaj7 for a mild pulsation of colour without abandoning the tonic."

[MarkRhodes]

I am really liking these exercises. I find the little melodies to be fun and memorable. They stick in my head. This whole experiment is new for me. I usually don't learn melodies verbatim. Most of the material I have will say something like, "try playing an arpeggio starting with the root over each chord. Then target the third, etc..." I'm not thinking about any of that for these exercises. I'm just playing the notes. I don't know if that is good or bad, but I'm sure enjoying it more! It feels more like music and less like math.

I agree they are catchy. And also skeletal. I think they are designed to focus on strong tones for beginning and ending phrases so that later, when the lines get busier, we retain a sense of the skeleton holding the lines together.

[MarkRhodes]

Something Jasaco mentioned earlier: the tab often suggests playing B natural on the 9th fret of the D string (fourth string from the bottom or high E string) but it may be easier to play that B on the fourth fret of the G string. It's the same note (tone) just a different fingering. But I would rather reach back than stretch forward, as the latter seems to pull my hand out of position. My two cents...

[TOMMO]

I agree they are catchy. And also skeletal. I think they are designed to focus on strong tones for beginning and ending phrases so that later, when the lines get busier, we retain a sense of the skeleton holding the lines together.

That's what Mr.Vignola mentions on p.3: "strong starting, ending and middle notes for your lines". I have to admit that I skipped those basic exercises when I first got the book, not realising how useful they can be....

[TOMMO]

Something Jasaco mentioned earlier: the tab often suggests playing B natural on the 9th fret of the D string (fourth string from the bottom or high E string) but it may be easier to play that B on the fourth fret of the G string. It's the same note (tone) just a different fingering. But I would rather reach back than stretch forward, as the latter seems to pull my hand out of position. My two cents...

So far I have been learning and memorizing about a dozen choruses of solos over RC (half of them from FV's books) and I have always adjusted the suggested fingerings (after trying them) to my liking. I have been a blues player for 40+years and I have my habits although I have changed quite a few of them learning jazz guitar, including using the pinky much more than I used to do.

Anyway: this here is a lot of fun and I'm enjoying it!

[MarkRhodes]

That's what Mr.Vignola mentions on p.3: "strong starting, ending and middle notes for your lines". I have to admit that I skipped those basic exercises when I first got the book, not realising how useful they can be....

I did too! I've spent more time on etude #3 (the first one in Bb) than anything else in the book. I actually got Volume 3 first and learned a few of those etudes note-for-note some time back.

[Doublea A]

Something Jasaco mentioned earlier: the tab often suggests playing B natural on the 9th fret of the D string (fourth string from the bottom or high E string) but it may be easier to play that B on the fourth fret of the G string. It's the same note (tone) just a different fingering. But I would rather reach back than stretch forward, as the latter seems to pull my hand out of position. My two cents...

I prefer to play that B on the third string as well.


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[TOMMO]

I did too! I've spent more time on etude #3 (the first one in Bb) than anything else in the book. I actually got Volume 3 first and learned a few of those etudes note-for-note some time back.

Actually this sounds like you're quoting me....LOL!

[MarkRhodes]

So far I have been learning and memorizing about a dozen choruses of solos over RC (half of them from FV's books) and I have always adjusted the suggested fingerings (after trying them) to my liking.

I do that too. In one of his books, Frank recommends that. He once said there are over a hundred ways to play / finger a C major scale. I'm sure he knows them all. But I don't want a hundred---I just want a few. (This is one reason I like the Herb Ellis approach: relate melodic ideas to chord shapes rather than to scale fingerings.)

One thing I need to do more---much more---is to transpose the solos I have learned to other keys. For rhythm changes, F, Eb, Ab (or G) and C seem most useful.

[rlrhett]

Just as I was saying that I thought these melodies were catchy, this one I just didn't click with. It shows in the playing too.

[MarkRhodes]

In another book that was once much-discussed here, "Connecting Chords Through Linear Harmony," author Bert Ligon talks about "outlines," and three in particular: 3217, 1357, and 3579. (These numbers refer to intervals. Over a C7 chord they would be, in order, E, D, C, Bb; C, E, G, Bb; and E, G, Bb, D.) These outlines, or patterns, occur over and over again in the playing of great jazz musicians.

Ligon provides a few etudes in his book over some basic changes (a 12-bar blues, rhythm changes, There Will Never Be Another You, and, IIRC, Stella. Maybe All the Things You Are too.)

Frank is giving us some tools that are probably more important than we are yet able to realize. When we get to the etudes----and as the dog said when his tail got run over by a train, "It won't be long now!"----we can look book and see how this or that line relates to part of this or that "basic".

[TOMMO]

relate melodic ideas to chord shapes rather than to scale fingerings.

Garrison Fewell's concept in his books is similar: creating melodies with basic triads plus extensions and pulling melodic material from the stacked triads and four-note partial chords of a chord and its possible extensions. Add passing scale tones, enclosures and indirect approaches for the guide tones and you have a good base to work from.

Bert Ligon talks about "outlines," and three in particular: 3217, 1357, and 3579. (These numbers refer to intervals. Over a C7 chord they would be, in order, E, D, C, Bb; C, E, G, Bb; and E, G, Bb, D.) These outlines, or patterns, occur over and over again in the playing of great jazz musicians.

Thanks - will try those. The "Coltrane pattern" works well, too. Picked that up from Matt Warnock's "Beginner's Guide to Rhythm Changes". Pattern goes: 1-2-3-5.

[MarkRhodes]

Here is Basics #4. My least favorite of them. (rlrhett and I seem to be on the same page here.)

I remember a line from school, "D means done!" Gimme me my D on this and let's move along....

[Doublea A]

In another book that was once much-discussed here, "Connecting Chords Through Linear Harmony," author Bert Ligon talks about "outlines," and three in particular: 3217, 1357, and 3579. (These numbers refer to intervals. Over a C7 chord they would be, in order, E, D, C, Bb; C, E, G, Bb; and E, G, Bb, D.) These outlines, or patterns, occur over and over again in the playing of great jazz musicians.

Ligon provides a few etudes in his book over some basic changes (a 12-bar blues, rhythm changes, There Will Never Be Another You, and, IIRC, Stella. Maybe All the Things You Are too.)

Frank is giving us some tools that are probably more important than we are yet able to realize. When we get to the etudes----and as the dog said when his tail got run over by a train, "It won't be long now!"----we can look book and see how this or that line relates to part of this or that "basic".

I really like that book by Bert Ligon. I have referred to it often.


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[Doublea A]

Garrison Fewell's concept in his books is similar: creating melodies with basic triads plus extensions and pulling melodic material from the stacked triads and four-note partial chords of a chord and its possible extensions. Add passing scale tones, enclosures and indirect approaches for the guide tones and you have a good base to work from.



Thanks - will try those. The "Coltrane pattern" works well, too. Picked that up from Matt Warnock's "Beginner's Guide to Rhythm Changes". Pattern goes: 1-2-3-5.

I like the work of Garrison Fewell as well.


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[jasaco]

Just as I was saying that I thought these melodies were catchy, this one I just didn't click with. It shows in the playing too.

Just checking: you are choosing to play this an octave higher, yes, or are you perhaps not aware that guitar music is written one octave higher than it is supposed to be played? (You can see the intended octave from the tablature). Just checking, since not everyone realizes this...

[rlrhett]

Just checking: you are choosing to play this an octave higher, yes, or are you perhaps not aware that guitar music is written one octave higher than it is supposed to be played? (You can see the intended octave from the tablature). Just checking, since not everyone realizes this...

It started as a mistake, but has become intentional. I didn't look at the tab. To be honest somehow I didn't even realize it was tab. Weird way in which he makes the notes around the numbers. But I read music OK.

I've been working on chord-melody stuff lately, and most of the material I have advise moving the melody up an octave to be able to self-accompany. But they don't usually adapt the notation. It's hard to read all those floating notes above the staff.

When I saw the first exercise I just mentally raised it without really thinking. After that I saw the other videos people have posted and realized my mistake. But then I tried playing it in the register it was written and I didn't like it. I'm in the habit of loosely organizing the guitar into three courses of two strings: 1-2 for melody, 3-4 for chord tones, and 5-6 for bass notes. Not hard and fast rules, just habit. Playing the melody in such a low register sounded muddy to my ears. I am expecting the melody to lie on those first strings.

So I've kept up. Started as a mistake but has become a conscious choice. On this last one I ended up above the 12th fret, but not too far. If the melodies move too high, I'll play them as written. Or maybe I'll shift part of the melody back down. I tried that for that part over the dominant chords, but still sounded off to me. I've been thinking about what to do when the issue arrises, but so far Frank has kept it all pretty low in the register.

[MarkRhodes]

I really like that book by Bert Ligon. I have referred to it often.

I did some work in it a few years ago but plan to re-visit it this year. My picking is better. (For a couple years there I was changing my grip so much that I couldn't focus on what I was actually playing. Also, I learned some things with a grip I no longer use and should get 'em down the way I would actually play them now.)

Would be interesting to compare his rhythm "basics" with Frank's.

[MarkRhodes]

I'm in the habit of loosely organizing the guitar into three courses of two strings: 1-2 for melody, 3-4 for chord tones, and 5-6 for bass notes. Not hard and fast rules, just habit. Playing the melody in such a low register sounded muddy to my ears. I am expecting the melody to lie on those first strings.

I can see that. My approach is different. Coming from a rock and blues background, I often lower the melody so that it is in the register of a rock riff! For example, I play "There Will Never Be Another You" and "These Foolish Things" in a lower register (-same key) than most guitarists, avoiding the high strings because they make the melody seem too thin. (To my imperfect ears.) I think this is why Wes used octaves for melody lines---they thicken things up.

Having said this, the second etude in Frank's book is lower than I'd like. But I'm learning it as written (or tabbed) because I could use the practice in that position.