Ed Byrne' s Linear Jazz Improvisation

**menialmoose** · 09-28-2010, 04:23 AM

At least it should be pointed out briefly, that the opinions of inexperienced students of improvisation are in danger of being taken on board by those who know even only a little less that than themselves.
These opinions should be scrutinised without mercy.

Further, they may be taken seriously, if offered confidently enough, and fuel self-limiting attitudes in players who are sincerely seeking ways of developing as improvisers.
Be responsible when making public declarations about things you know little about.
Even if you're established in other areas of your playing.
I've typically encountered this in players of say, 'rock' or classical musicians. Though of course, not exclusively.

As for suspicion of the validity of members posts who have only a few on the board - serious??? Don't even know where to start with that.

**Rickh** · 09-28-2010, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by FatJeff

Why is it that everyone pimping these books has only a handful of posts??? Hmm?

Not that I am against them at all - I have worked out of the LJI books and I got something out of them - but come on.

It's funny how the "fan club" are also equally bitter about your review. It's funny how one of them is banned already. It's also funny how they all have the same personality and writing style. Funny times

**Jazzaluk** · 09-28-2010, 01:05 PM

Yeah...sockpuppet alert.

**Reg** · 09-28-2010, 02:20 PM

Wow... do you really believe a fellow musician, a brother or sister of the clan would sell me out for a nickle/98........ you mean I'm not the bottom line, I really can't believe every thing I see or read on the net... any where for that matter... You mean I can't know anything because I don't know everything...My world is falling apart... Delusional Musician Reg

**mike walker** · 09-28-2010, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Jazzaluk

Yeah...sockpuppet alert.

I really do hope this is not the case.

To dupe a community like that would be appalling.

I'm not sure i can bring myself
to believe anyone would be so conceited.

**merseybeat** · 09-29-2010, 01:40 AM

Just ask Dirk to check the IP's, unfortunatley Mike this goes on! They normally have a debate with themselves too! Its all very weird!

Eddie

**JohnW400** · 09-29-2010, 09:17 AM

I don't think it's Ed Byrne posing as someone else. I've seen his posts here and at AAJ. He has no trouble talking about his books and giving away information out of them.

Perhaps it's a marketing company or his publisher. Who knows.

**mike walker** · 09-30-2010, 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by JohnW400

I don't think it's Ed Byrne posing as someone else. I've seen his posts here and at AAJ. He has no trouble talking about his books and giving away information out of them.

Perhaps it's a marketing company or his publisher. Who knows.

Well, if it is, he needs to get onto it. Nothing more certain to get folks to vote with their feet if they feel a hint of manipulation.

**Solo Flight** · 09-30-2010, 02:39 PM

No, I don’t think these folks go to the trouble to pose as others just to post reviews from supposed third parties. But someone who joins a forum seemingly just to post a review of some product perhaps rubs people the wrong way and generates just a touch of suspicion as to how objective the review really is. For example, if you google ljistudent, you’ll find that this person has joined several different jazz forums just to post essentially the same glowing review as he did here. Do I think it’s Ed himself? No. But it’s feasible to me – especially given this single post pattern -- that Ed or his publisher might have asked him to do so. If that’s the case, just say so. At least it comes across as more honest to say that so-and-so is a friend of mine and he asked me to let you know about his new product . . . As for myself, I am much more turned off by Ed’s snide, sarcastic over-reaction to other posters’ slightly critical comments of his work. You can always win over more people by being nice – as in “I see where you might think such-and-such but have you tried looking at it this way . . .” or “I’ve found that some people have that same reaction if they haven’t worked through the material thoroughly – you might try giving it a few weeks and then seeing if that makes a difference in how you view the book.” But to go off on someone who posted a critical review, saying essentially “what the hell would you know about anything?” doesn’t make me want to pull out my wallet.

**merseybeat** · 09-30-2010, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by FatJeff

Book 1 ("The Method") contains quite a bit of good information on his approach and how it works.

Now I was interested and tempted to buy!

Originally Posted by Ed Byrne

Where do I begin? You say you've been learning jazz all of about 1 year? And you make such quick judgements? You've merely scanned these two books, yet you feel competent to offer a book report on them. You are far cleverer than I.

No Buy!

Eddie

**JohnW400** · 09-30-2010, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Solo Flight

No, I don’t think these folks go to the trouble to pose as others just to post reviews from supposed third parties. But someone who joins a forum seemingly just to post a review of some product perhaps rubs people the wrong way and generates just a touch of suspicion as to how objective the review really is. For example, if you google ljistudent, you’ll find that this person has joined several different jazz forums just to post essentially the same glowing review as he did here.

I saw the same thing elsewhere as well.
i thought there were a couple of these

Originally Posted by Solo Flight

. . As for myself, I am much more turned off by Ed’s snide, sarcastic over-reaction to other posters’ slightly critical comments of his work..

Yes, he doesn't appear to have patience for the "non believer". However his stuff is at the Free Jazz Institute for those that care to look. Judging from the posts (aside from LJISTUDENET) the response is mixed as to who likes it and who doesn't. But you get that with any method book whether it's his, or Lydian Chromatic or Barry Harris scales or what have you.

**merseybeat** · 09-30-2010, 03:49 PM

Whats sad here is that FatGeoff after buying Ed's books was technically one of Ed's understudies! Now if a student cant give constructive feedback to his teacher then whats the point?
FatGeoff is an accomplished guitarist by any standard! Jazz is NOT an exclusive boys club (though many seem to think so!). And its a shame to have anally retentive tutors dismissing the students! So sad

Eddie

**menialmoose** · 10-02-2010, 05:06 AM

Few weeks?
To suggest that someone would review any kinda music course (unless like another critic in thread, they claimed knew it all to functional gigging level) in a 'few weeks' ... jeez.

**Solo Flight** · 10-04-2010, 09:17 AM

A few weeks, a year, two years - whatever. I was just suggesting that there are much more polite ways to suggest that someone may not be able to fully appreciate a set of music materials by just persuing them.

**likeshisjazz134679** · 03-03-2011, 08:43 PM

Unusual thread.
I was turned off by the snide remarks to a fellow jazzguitar.be'er, and justifying a weeks wage for one concept doesnt cut it for me im afraid. Not when others are offering knowledge for a fraction of the price. Especially in these tough economic times.
And the rave reviews from PIANO players with a handful of posts and profile names such as "LJStudent"..... in a GUITAR forum, nah......thats just sneaky sly marketing to me.

Amusing all the same

I just saved myself some £ with this thread.

**Aristotle** · 03-04-2011, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by stemajor7

and justifying a weeks wage for one concept doesnt cut it for me im afraid. Not when others are offering knowledge for a fraction of the price.

I haven't calculated it, but I wonder how many years it would take someone to assimilate the free knowledge on Ed's website and master the basic skills outlined there.

**gersdal** · 03-04-2011, 01:09 PM

Been a while since I studied Ed Byrne's books. Thanks for reminding me about them. I'm looking forward to reading them again. Cheers

**docbop** · 03-04-2011, 02:38 PM

Has anyone worked with both books/approaches and can comment on them. Similarities and differences and any comparisons.

**JonnyPac** · 03-04-2011, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by docbop

Has anyone worked with both books/approaches and can comment on them. Similarities and differences and any comparisons.

+1

**gersdal** · 03-05-2011, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by docbop

Has anyone worked with both books/approaches and can comment on them. Similarities and differences and any comparisons.

I have them both and can try... I'll have to reread them all first in order to do them all justice.

Bert Ligon has two jazz theory books, and they are as such not relevant. Ed Byrnes books are not IMHO music theory books, but ideas and methods for improvisation. Hence Bert Ligons practice book and linear lines book would be the relevant ones for a comparison.

Don't wan't to go into the same trap that has already be done here when the Lego Brick book was reviewed as a music theory book, but since it is written as a mnemonic method book for remembering tunes, it failed as a music theory book....not suprisingly ;-)

**docbop** · 03-05-2011, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by gersdal

I have them both and can try... I'll have to reread them all first in order to do them all justice.

Bert Ligon has two jazz theory books, and they are as such not relevant. Ed Byrnes books are not IMHO music theory books, but ideas and methods for improvisation. Hence Bert Ligons practice book and linear lines book would be the relevant ones for a comparison.

Don't wan't to go into the same trap that has already be done here when the Lego Brick book was reviewed as a music theory book, but since it is written as a mnemonic method book for remembering tunes, it failed as a music theory book....not suprisingly ;-)

I wasn't thinking about the theory books, but comparison of their linear improv books. Any more thoughts comparing those?

**gersdal** · 03-05-2011, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by docbop

I wasn't thinking about the theory books, but comparison of their linear improv books. Any more thoughts comparing those?

Right. Will do.

**Shadow of the Sun** · 03-07-2011, 08:12 AM

What Ed is doing here, basically, is going back to the basic method of composing for a lot of history and going back to the cantus. And as a method, I'd say it's pretty good; if it worked for composers, it'll work for improvisers.

That said, his attitude kind of...sucks. I am not a genius at jazz, but I can still look at a method and offer my critique. The proper response to this: reasonably explaining to me why I am wrong.

Not saying: "YOU'RE A FUCKWIT, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME?"

**Aristotle** · 03-07-2011, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun

What Ed is doing here, basically, is going back to the basic method of composing

Interesting that you say "going back." I put that together with all the posts from guys who say they're working on or know all the scales and modes, and can't quite figure out how to improvise from that. Maybe something is being skipped.

**Silence** · 03-10-2011, 04:56 PM

I have both LJI & all of Bert Ligon's books.

I don't think that either is a better choice, but that they work together very well. Ed Byrne is really good with responding to any questions you may have (I must have sent him at least 20-30 emails) and he is extremely patient. I just believe he is passionate about his method.

The only thing I don't agree with is how the price of his books have increased. If I remember correctly, I do believe they were cheaper when I purchased them. He may not agree with me, but I cannot remember when I have ever seen a book go up in price that (minus out of print and 1st editions) is consistently available.