Ed Byrne' s Linear Jazz Improvisation

[docbop]

Thanks Silence for the info.

Ed's books are a bit on the high side and that's why I'm asking about them before spending the money. Bert's books I been able to get good prices off Amazon Marketplace so I have a couple of his books.

[Silence]

No problem, Docbop.

I could go in depth on LJI, but what it comes down to is hard work. I think any method can work as long you put in the time. For what it is worth though, I think LJI is a great method and compliment to Bert Ligon's stuff.

They both give you the opportunity to be continuously involved in the creative process with tons of examples and usable concepts. I feel like a lot of the books I have went through only give you limited examples with no explanation on how to expand them. LJI gives you the tools to almost endlessly come up with new ways to approach your improvisations from both a melodic and rhythmic standpoint. Connecting Chords with linear harmony gives you the nucleus of jazz improv. in the form of all those great examples.

All in all, Hard work is what makes it all come together. These books don't offer a short cut, but IMHO, I believe they are some of best books I have come across on the subject of improvisation.

Let me know if you have any more questions or just PM me.

[Ed Byrne]

Hi everyone. I heard through the grapevine that there was another buzz about me and my books here at the JGF, so I thought I might pay you another visit.

I am always happy when people are talking about my LJI Method. As some of you know, I used to write in the AAJ forum a great deal. Indeed, I was answering questions for years, gathering information for my jazz advice book, now published: Speaking of Jazz: Essays and Attitudes. I stopped writing in forums when the book was finished, since I needed to get back to full-time performance and composition. I would like to comment on this thread a bit, though, as there seem to be several misunderstandings--some of which actually gave me a good laugh.

The thread begins with a serious inquiry about my Linear Jazz Improvisation Method, which a well-known poster here quickly panned, based on false information and his prejudice that no good could come from a guitar book written by a trombonist. And he commented on my guitar book, Functional Jazz Guitar, while the question was about LJI.

After that, someone pans my LJI Books 2 and 3 as "a rip-off." I am still to this day extensively practicing improvising on those books. The book isn't designed merely to have you read through targeted arpeggios a couple of times, but rather that you improvise 4-bar phrases at great length on the limited language of each chord--with chromatic targeting. I have found this, however basic, activity to be the single most important aspect of the entire method. I still sometimes spend entire months on a single chord, improvising in this manner. Most of us need to target single chords first anyway, in preparation for targeting entire tunes, which is what I address in my LJI Songbook Series, which systematically targets the reduced melody, guide-tone lines, melodic rhythmic motives, and root progression of specific standard tunes.

Then apparently came the notion that I or my publisher (which is me) sent people to your thread to somehow promote my books. "LJI Student," as I just learned, is one of my (best) students, a Brazilian pianist. He's very passionate about LJI, since it has changed his musical life. He practices everything I give him, and he has made astounding progress in the past two years. He just wanted to share, because the poster's initial question was never addressed; and then he was put off by some of the other posters (while he himself was perhaps unintentionally putting others off). English is a second language for him. I have no idea who the other posters are/were, except for Randall and a few others from AAJ, where I no longer go. But it isn't unusual for people to write good things about LJI: I got two e-mails just this morning from customers thanking me; I get such letters every day. Moreover, I am busy writing for and rehearsing two different groups at this time, and have neither the time nor inclination for such trivialities--or nickels and dimes from hustling books in that manner, for that matter.

As for the prices of my books, they are self-published, and they have a high overhead. Corporations, of course, pay no taxes, do not really pay for their advertising, etc., and have bought up all the pay-per-click advertising in any case. Most of those corporate-published books are filled with the same old chord scale stuff, while LJI is an original and unique method. You won't get that anywhere else, and for that I charge what it takes to keep this method available to the performers who buy my books and actually practice my techniques. Moreover, these books are good for life. I keep returning to all 15 of my books myself, each time on the next level. Some people even count the number of pages in a book in order to judge its "value." Are you kidding me? The key to editing books with true substance is in eliminating the unnecessary: These books could have easily occupied hundreds of pages. It's what's IN the books that is important--substantive content, and wasted pages cost money to print. To those that believe that my books are too expensive (haven't heard that one before), I say buy those other books and do without mine--but you will be doing without, because my stuff, which is brand new to jazz, most definitely ain't in there. It simply ain't the same choice as coke or pepsi.

The key to getting value from LJI is in its direct application. Sometimes, in it's elegant simplicity and lack of "deep theory," the method's very concept goes over somebody's head, because when he reads it, he might say, "of course, so what?" But LJI systematically shows you, with great practice-along sound files, exactly what to play and how to go about practicing and improvising on it until it evolves into a powerful personal style. Whatever anyone says about my method, it has one huge advantage: It works--big-time. And it is completely inclusive: It can be used in conjunction with any other approach. And it not only works for jazz, but for all musical styles--and levels and instruments and voices.

Now I am going to improvise all day again on PC #1 from LJI Book 4, only each time through the 20mm line, the entire line shifts ahead or behind by a beat or 1/2 beat. Concentration city, but this comes out in performance in millions of magical melodic ways!

Yours in jazz,
Ed Byrne

[jckoto3]

Ed,

I went over to your website to get some more info about your methods, but I'm still a little confused about what your books are all about. It's like that famous quote: "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture". What I'm getting at is that there are no examples that I could find that illustrate the content of your methods...

Would it be possible for you to post an example or two of the LJI material? Maybe a PDF or image of a page out of one of your books?

--JC

I apologize for any non-sequiturs in this post

[FatJeff]

Hey JC, at the bottom of this page: Byrne Jazz - Method you can sign up for "a FREE seven-part mini-course in Linear Jazz Improvisation - and find out for yourself what it's all about!"

[Ed Byrne]

Hey JC, at the bottom of this page: Byrne Jazz - Method you can sign up for "a FREE seven-part mini-course in Linear Jazz Improvisation - and find out for yourself what it's all about!"

Thanks, Jeff. Also, if you click on the "More Information" for each book in the book store, you can see and even hear examples.

Byrne Jazz - Store

Ed

[docbop]

Ed,

I went over to your website to get some more info about your methods, but I'm still a little confused about what your books are all about. It's like that famous quote: "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture". What I'm getting at is that there are no examples that I could find that illustrate the content of your methods...

Would it be possible for you to post an example or two of the LJI material? Maybe a PDF or image of a page out of one of your books?

--JC

I apologize for any non-sequiturs in this post

There are some examples of Ed's materials over at FreeJazzInstitute.org

Free Jazz Institute

[Jabberwocky]

I haven't read Ed Byrne's method. But I would really dearly love to try it if it could get me away from the conceit of all the bleeps and bloobs that is called jazz these days. Who actually finds listening to this stuff fun other than another jazz-head steeped into turning theory into practice? If Ed Byrne's method can teach me to make harmony and melody lines that do not turn away the uninitiated, that is actually enjoyable to listen to, I am sold. Perhaps jazz was never meant for the uninitiated anyway.

"If you do not dig it, you do not understand it" is the ivory-tower conceit that we need to get away from. Any wonder that the audience for jazz is dwindling? I guess jazz has had this problem since day one.

Sorry, I belong to the great jazz unwashed. I cannot even begin to talk in the language that you all can. But I am not sure that I want to now.

[MarkRhodes]

Perhaps jazz was never meant for the uninitiated anyway.

But jazz was *popular* for decades. Even after the heyday of swing passed, jazz was still fairly popular. Heck, who here *doesn't* love at least a dozen Blue Note recordings from the late '50s / early '60s? "Pop" and rock eclipsed jazz in sales, but they were thought of largely as "music for kids" and many adults kept listening to jazz.

It's ironic that in the past few decades, while the audience for jazz has plummeted, the *subject* of jazz (-or jazz theory) has exploded on campuses. I sometimes think that on any given day, more jazz profs have a steady gig than jazz players do.

[docbop]

It gets into how you define Jazz. I come from the school of thought Jazz is about playing on the cutting edge, pushing the envelope. There are those as PM puts it are playing tribute to another era in Jazz, but its not true Jazz. I know some will disagree with that definition, but I agree with it.

[FatJeff]

"If you do not dig it, you do not understand it" is the ivory-tower conceit that we need to get away from. Any wonder that the audience for jazz is dwindling?

It's not just jazz. Try telling some grad student in classical composition what you think about George Crumb's works, and you'll be beaten severely about the head, neck and shoulders with a conducting stick.

I mean this kind of tripe. Would ANYONE other than an actual music major listen to this crap?

[docbop]

I mean this kind of tripe. Would ANYONE other than an actual music major listen to this crap?

Yes.

[MarkRhodes]

It gets into how you define Jazz. I come from the school of thought Jazz is about playing on the cutting edge, pushing the envelope.

So, Louis Armstrong didn't play jazz the last 30 years of his life? "Cutting edge" of what?

[docbop]

So, Louis Armstrong didn't play jazz the last 30 years of his life? "Cutting edge" of what?

That statement doesn't even make sense. Not talking about a person talked about past eras and styles in current times. Plus Louis basically was the creator of Jazz so pretty much every thing he did was pushing the envelope when playing Jazz. Towards the end of his life he did do a Pop-ish stuff for the money. If you are playing Louis' style today then you fit PM's definition of tribute music not Jazz. Last playing there are players playing older styles, but still pushing the envelope I would put Jim Hall in that category.

[Jabberwocky]

Sorry, guys, not trolling to see handbags at dawn. While I agree that jazz as an art form should not stand still and should push the envelope (as any art form should), it should not forget and alienate the greater audience. There is the danger of it turning into academic jazz exercises. And while that is great as proof of concept, it does not make for great "music" oftentimes. And that is where I run into the "emperor has no clothes on" remarks from the "uninitiated".

Jazz is a popular art form. It was what attracted me to jazz, in the first place. Jazz elevates the trite and the hackneyed, makes silk purses out of sow's ears. As it veers from the popular towards the academic, what are we losing in the process? Accessibility? Should jazz be so esoteric that it is no longer accessible? Should accessibility be frowned upon as some low-birth vulgarity? Should it be the secret handshake of some instrument-wielding cabal?

As a neophyte, I may not be fit to comment. I go back to what attracted me to jazz. When it starts becoming inaccessible and is no longer a joy to listen to, then I may as well go back to playing rock n roll.

There are lots of Pat Martino fans here. I was watching a Pat Martino instructional video on Ytube recently, and "this is how I play it over chord change to chord change", bleeps and bloops and bleeps and bloops. Where is the joy? Where is the hummable tune? And then I go back to Wes and Sonny Clark and Dex and Clifford Brown and Art Tatum and the other jazz giants...There's the joy. I remember the first time I heard Oliver Nelson's Blues and the Abstract Truth. It was a shock to me. And then it made sense when I worked at it without knowing any theory. Not immediately accessible but still accessible. It has a tune.

We all laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the world was round, we all laughed when Edison invented sound. We all laughed at Wilbur and his brother, when they said that Man could fly. Marconi was a phony, it's the same old lie....

I don't know about you but that is JAZZ to me.

[Jabberwocky]

And what has all this to do with Mr. Ed Byrne's Linear Jazz Improvisation? I wonder if Mr. Byrne's method teaches one how to make musical music, improvising hummable tunes. Or is it like most jazz methods where playing becomes about as interesting as playing random scales over their accompanying chords, where it becomes exercises in avoiding dissonance.

[gersdal]

And what has all this to do with Mr. Ed Byrne's Linear Jazz Improvisation? I wonder if Mr. Byrne's method teaches one how to make musical music, improvising hummable tunes. Or is it like most jazz methods where playing becomes about as interesting as playing random scales over their accompanying chords, where it becomes exercises in avoiding dissonance.

It is definitely not about "playing random scales over their accompanying chords, where it becomes exercises in avoiding dissonance". I think Ed B hates "playing random scales over their accompanying chords, where it becomes exercises in avoiding dissonance", and his method and books are made as an alternative to that.

[MarkRhodes]

Plus Louis basically was the creator of Jazz so pretty much every thing he did was pushing the envelope when playing Jazz.

No it wasn't, and he never thought so. His great records with Ella, for example, were popular (and deservedly so) but they weren't pushing any envelope. They were great records nonetheless. What *is* this envelope, and again, the *cutting edge* of what?

[Aristotle]

Jabber,
I generally agree with your sentiments and often post against useless "academic excercise," and that chord-scale-theory is no substitute for the formal study of composisitoin. However, there is no getting around the fact that jazz includes advanced humming.

[Jazzaluk]

And what has all this to do with Mr. Ed Byrne's Linear Jazz Improvisation? I wonder if Mr. Byrne's method teaches one how to make musical music, improvising hummable tunes. Or is it like most jazz methods where playing becomes about as interesting as playing random scales over their accompanying chords, where it becomes exercises in avoiding dissonance.

The choice to play melodically is always yours.

All of these various methods only facilitate a means to grasping and combining the melodic, harmonic, and rhythmic elements so you have a chance to play in a jazz voice.

There are those who choose to live on the bleeding edge of jazz, but they must be satisfied with a small (or no) audiance and really should not blame the rest of the planet for their obscurity.

[Silence]

Jabberwocky, Byrne's method is based on constructing lines around the melody. It's a lot of what his book is based around. After reading through it and digesting what was presented, I agree that he does a good job of showing you how to creating interesting lines while still always keeping the melody in your head.

[gggomez]

This thread is a fun read.