Found the best bebop online jazz improv course to date

[guitarplayer007]

I had a major practice rut for about a month but coming out of it. I only thing I would like different if it was more then just learning to solo over a blues progression, but I'n not up to where he introduces bird blues yet. I'm also still working on Bebop Calisthenics from the beginning modules. There's a lot of info in this calss and and when you have to work a day job its takes time to get this stuff under the fingers
Ken

[WillMbCdn5]

I have been working with the material in modules 1-3. To be honest I have been less than disciplined but have developed what I think is a solid basic fretboard vision using Richie's 7 positions , his various passing/approach and neighbor concepts as much as I have delved into them and some of the concepts in the calisthenics. I have really taken on board his intervallic approach to looking at the fretboard. Am now applying all that with some confidence to some simple blues heads I have also now learned which I found easier to learn because of the course material -

Billie's Bounce
Blues in the closet
Blue Monk
Chitlins Con Carne
Now see how you are
So What
All blues
Midnight Blues

Could I have done that before- emphatic no!!!!!

I think I have gone from hacking to if not seeing at least knowing there is a light ) I'm sure this all sounds crude to some but it is nice to feel that progress is being made and that I have a trustworthy resource to keep that going.

Will

[wzpgsr]

I'm still going strong. Love the course. I was starting to neglect tunes and other aspects of my playing, so I've slowed down a bit. Which is fine because the longer I do it, the more ingrained it becomes. I am sooooo close to finishing module 2. I can almost taste module 3...


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[guitarplayer007]

Glad you guys love it, It definitely builds a great foundation!!!!
Ken

[odel]

Am close to joining in -- just need to get through some work humps this coming month so I can face up to it with some time to immerse. The more I read, the more good value this seems, IF one has the capacity and motivation to invest the hours.

[Flyin' Brian]

Another fingering system?

I was, probably still am, interested but really another fingering system? Django and Wes would not get past first base on these online jazz schools. Is it really the best way to learn jazz?

Ahh well, back to transcribing on my own in my little booth.

This is one of the problems that I have. I use a fingering system that's basically like Jimmy Bruno's/caged combined with a 3 notes per string method and have been using it for years. This course is interesting and is certainly priced right but I'm 69 and get nervous buying green bananas, much less trying to learn a new fingering system.

I wonder how dogmatic he is about fingering. Jimmy Bruno is pretty stuck on doing it his way.

[guitarplayer007]

This is one of the problems that I have. I use a fingering system that's basically like Jimmy Bruno's/caged combined with a 3 notes per string method and have been using it for years. This course is interesting and is certainly priced right but I'm 69 and get nervous buying green bananas, much less trying to learn a new fingering system.

I wonder how dogmatic he is about fingering. Jimmy Bruno is pretty stuck on doing it his way.

I used to use Bruno's fingerings as well, I probably still do sometimes, but this course actually focuses much more on using the Arpeggios to create lines and how to approach them. You can use what ever fingering you like , he isn't going to stop you from joining
Ken

[joe2758]

This is one of the problems that I have. I use a fingering system that's basically like Jimmy Bruno's/caged combined with a 3 notes per string method and have been using it for years. This course is interesting and is certainly priced right but I'm 69 and get nervous buying green bananas, much less trying to learn a new fingering system.

I wonder how dogmatic he is about fingering. Jimmy Bruno is pretty stuck on doing it his way.

He's not even close to being like Jimmy regarding fingerings. In fact if you watch his videos carefully you can easily see inconsistencies in what he uses (like playing frets 1,3,5 sometimes he will use second finger on 3rd, sometimes3rd finger). It's just an organizational approach to lay out a map.

I'm only half way through module 2, and I am using his fingerings, but I would suggest that the material can be studied with any fingerings you already know.

Fingerings are one thing, but Richie thinks entirely different than what Jimmy teaches. If you're not wanting to change that, then there wouldn't be much point. Jimmy basically teaches an umbrella approach (yeah, yeah, he hates the word "approach"), and Richie is teaching you to think in a more zoomed in way. Just different means to the same end

[guitarplayer007]

Yes the concepts will work with any fingering I suppose

[AlsoRan]

I just graduated myself from module 1. I had put the course aside for a few months to memorize some more songs that are fun to play from other genres.

I know have a good ear and finger memory for connecting the shapes he teaches in module 1.

I really wanted to get it so it became second nature, knowing the intervals and some nice connecting points. In the process, I picked up a few favorite four or five note paths that I fall back on when I run out of ideas.

So on to Module 2.

Alan Holdsworth has an album that says, "the Devil Take the Hindmost."

I am the hindmost (which I take to mean the slow ones that are lagging towards the back of the pack). Maybe slow but sure will pay off in the end.

[Ian_S]

Any of you guys still going with this? I'm about half way through module 2.

Yes I am also almost midway through 2. I have got caught up in another project and haven't put as much time in as I'd liked. Also a spot of illness laid me out for a while. I am working through the bebop callisthenics 1. It is a structured way of learning approach notes. Something that gets mentioned in books and websites - you need to use approach notes- but here it is a rigorous exploration of them all. Good stuff, but time consuming. I will never make it through in a month!! Seeing how much material there is still to go in 2.
The good news is that I was playing recently in this other project - rather more rocky - and found myself using Richie's fingerings and arpeggios. That solo came out better than I'd played before. So some of it is sinking in.

[joe2758]

I'm going to stick to the module a month plan. Of course I could spend more than a month on module 2, but I figure as long as I can play the etudes at 120, make an acceptable version of each rhythm template, and play through the calisthenics off the summary page at a decent pace I should be in good shape to move on.

Like I said before, my natural tendency is to move through things too quickly, but I also don't want to get stuck on something for too long just because it's not completely perfect. I'm thinking of it like a workshop: it's going to keep moving forward and I'll just do what I can in the time I have. This might change as things progress, but I think I will be able to accomplish the criteria above for each module in a month. Maybe I'll go back and fill in some gaps at the end.

[joe2758]

also did you guys see he took the cat out of the book?! bummer...

[guitarplayer007]

Yes these exercises are something we will be working for much more then a year, especially the Calisthenics
ken

[AlsoRan]

Whoa! This Module 2 is loaded with instructional material, just as you have said.

But man, if you can ingrain these small interval movements in your head the way this module instructs, it seems to me many won't even need to go much further.

I don't own a course, or remember seeing one that takes you down such rudimentary basic building blocks of a solo.

I am making sure that I am singing/humming along (although I find my throat getting a little hoarse) so that these little intervals get ingrained.

[guitarplayer007]

Whoa! This Module 2 is loaded with instructional material, just as you have said.

But man, if you can ingrain these small interval movements in your head the way this module instructs, it seems to me many won't even need to go much further.

I don't own a course, or remember seeing one that takes you down such rudimentary basic building blocks of a solo.

I am making sure that I am singing/humming along (although I find my throat getting a little hoarse) so that these little intervals get ingrained.

My Module 8 just opened up, believe me it gets even more comprehensive...
Ken

[NSJ]

FYI I noticed that Sheryl Bailey teaches arpeggios practically the same way that Ritchie does --- in a complete system, in position , starting from the lowest possible note on the six string to the highest possible note on the first string.

Thus, in 5th pos, the arpeggios she uses for Autumn Leaves in Gm/Bb (Cm7, F7, BbM7, EbM7, Am7b5, D7, Gm7) follow the same rules and system as Ritchie uses.


It probably is even the same 7 fingerings. This is why I don't fixate or get worked up about "oh my God I'm gonna be using the new fingering . "

Certain things work because they work efficiently on the fingerboard as far as best practices are concerned. That's why two teachers can teach something the same way --- because they found the most efficient and practical solution to a given problem. .

[destinytot]

When I signed up I was in the (bizarre-sounding) position of being able to read/decode rhythm and melody notation, but I wasn't able to play it. Carol Kaye's material has fixed that for me, but I wouldn't have understood without this course - and certain forum threads. Fingerings: God Bless the Child (that's got his own).

[MarkRhodes]

Certain things work because they work efficiently on the fingerboard as far as best practices are concerned. That's why two teachers can teach something the same way --- because they found the most efficient and practical solution to a given problem. .

I wonder if they (Sheryl Bailey and Richie Zellon) found it at the same music school---aren't they both Berklee grads?

[joe2758]

I haven't delved into any material by Sheryl, but yes, I know they did both go to Berklee

[Sim777]

After reading your posts guys I thought of giving Richie a try. I spend 1 week on lesson 1 and after that time decided to cancel my subscription and ask for a refund.

On first glance method looks solid but unfortunately I does not work for me. Richie seems like a lovely guy and I am sure he has put a lot of thought and effort in creating his system but there were some issues that made me to cancel my subscription.

1. Information delivery - all over the place. Videos are way too long and slow and there is a ton of books to download, videos too watch, tracks to download, list of tasks to do... it very quickly gets too much and I was getting very frustrated with how disorganized the whole process seems. Learning jazz guitar is hard enough without need to have to spend serious amount of time trying to find and understand provided instruction. I personally found the experience very frustrating. On top of that web site forum is dead. I posted questions about using the site with zero reply to my questions. Seems most posts are months old with no activity.With all this information provided I still did not know what and how to practice.

2. Heptatonic fingerings - again, it is hard enough to learn jazz guitar as it is. While 99% of guitarists that I know and listen to do not use this kind of fingerings I felt like it was once again a one step too much to learn a fairly obscure fingering patterns. It would be really hard for me to switch after 20 years or so of playing in CAGED. Also, on lessons 1 instructions I thought that presented scales were played in a rather sloppy way be Richie.

Apologies for my negative comments about the course. I am sure it will work for a lot of folks, but for me obstacles of obscure fingering system and frustrating user experience were deciding factors not to go along with it.

I was really hoping that this was going to be a good course after reading post on this forum. I have spend last 3 years with Jimmy Bruno and was looking for less 'umbrella approach' as mentioned by someone people on here. I am cancelling my JB as well and will look for private tuition as I think there is only so far you can go with online courses.

[AlsoRan]

I am slugging through module 2 and the 36 Bebop Calisthenics exercises.

One thing that I am starting to notice is that going from the 3rd guide tone to a lower diatonic neighboring tone and back is not much different from the going to chromatic neighboring tone and back. It has kind of surprised me how my ear really focuses on that 3rd, and not so much on the neighboring tones (whether chromatic or diatonic). They just did not seem to matter, especially true at faster tempos.

[teleman3726]

I gave up after a few weeks.
I think my 'top' subscription is good for a year but I can't see going back to this.
I can't imagine Burrell or others actually learning this way.

[Sim777]

Yes, that was my problem too. Why learn in a way that no one else uses. Also, any existing transcriptions and fingerings from masters or your existing licks or transcriptions would have to be adapted to this fingering. Another note is, he is using fingers 1,4,5 for 3 notes per strings - that it just nuts to me and very unnatural.

[guitarplayer007]

I gave up after a few weeks.
I think my 'top' subscription is good for a year but I can't see going back to this.
I can't imagine Burrell or others actually learning this way.

What Module did you get to?
Ken