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Well, Docbop, Module 2 opened for me today so I can tell you what's in it. A lot! Over 30 videos (-the ones I've seen so far run about 5 minutes each).
Page number references run up to page 45 of the workbook and page 40 of the lesson book.
Bebop Calisthenics are introduced.
I believe 5 BIAB files are to be played along with some Jazz Etudes (-and the approach to be taken with those is also introduced in this Module.
There is a quiz to test one's grasp of the theory. (I'm not there yet.) As you said elsewhere, it's not advanced theory. It's nuts and bolts but already I've heard a few things that made me go, "Whoa, I never realized that before."
Rhythm Templates are introduced...
The Assignment sheet ends with this:
>>>>>Module #2 contains an extensive amount of information and most students won’t be able to master it in 30 days (which is understandable). In spite of this, it is necessary to expose each participant at this time to a double portion of assignments in the interest of introducing some of the key elements of this program, such as: the Bebop Calisthenics, Rhythm Lab & Jazz Etudes . Your understanding of how to complete the assignments related to these sections is the key to making serious progress in this course.
Do the best you can to complete as many of these assignments as you can. For some this may take months! Remember: You are not expected to master each module in 30 days. Many will be playing catch up and still developing this information well beyond the 1 year duration of this course, so don’t let it overwhelm you!!<<<<<<
So a) this is a lot of material but b) it is not the average amount of material for a Module. It's a load. ("Take a load off, Fanny....")
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12-30-2015 08:33 PM
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It would be a mistake to think that Richie's fingerings are meant as an alternative to the 5 positions you learned as a kid. (I learned them too.) These fingerings are not positions. Three of the seven fingerings begin on the same fretted note, and another three begin on another same fretted note. They are not positions in the way CAGED fingerings are. (Or Jimmy Bruno's "five fingerings" are---I learned those too.) It sounds a little odd at first but the beauty of it lies with the ease in which you can cycle through changes in position. It's not about playing one scale up and down the neck (-although you can do that) but about cycling through scales / chords in position while playing jazz tunes. (It's not just about playing in position, either: one can play horizontally too, though Richie stresses the vertical approach first because he feels many methods don't teach it well.)
Originally Posted by Moonray
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Thanks, I've talked to others and from what I can tell his online "Modules" are similar the "Lessons" in the book. I've also discover he has an "Assignments Checklist" in the back of the Lesson book that doesn't break things in to pieces, but has what pages in which of the three books to do in order. So the lesson order is there just doesn't break it into bite-size pieces. So I have a good idea of how he paces thing now.
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
I found myself really trying to get the terminology straight and more precisely, because, sadly, I realized I had lazily used it incorrectly in the past: differentiating between a neighboring tone and the passing tone, which passing tone is a chromatic that differentiates from the rest, which are diatonic non harmonic passing tones? The difference between diatonic neighboring tones and chromatic neighboring tones, when why you can use diatonic non harmonic neighboring tones from both above and below but you can only use chromatic neighboring tones from below...
I realize this use of terminology is probably simple for many , but because it is a simple concept, I took it for granted and realize that I was using it incorrectly. Unit 2 straightened that out, that's for sure.
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Same here. Watching the first few videos of Module 2 gave me some "aha!" moments. I realized I'd never thought clearly about the distinctions he makes and that they are distinctions worth making. I'm feeling very good about this course. Originally Posted by NSJ
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I've been going through this course, enjoying it a lot. I'm on module 2 at the moment. Something that I am really fighting with myself though is these fingerings. I've learned them and followed his course to a t so far but I really just don't see them as better then caged. For me I'm able to place all arpeggios and pentatonic shapes into caged fingerings and they fall so much more naturally under the hand. I'm thinking from now on just rewriting the exercises to fit the caged fingerings.
Anybody further in the course see this is as a problem?
Thanks
Andrew
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Andrew, I agree. Originally Posted by Drapte
Also, a couple of the fingerings cause me a lot pain.
I gave up on the Berklee system, years ago, for the same reason.
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Glad I'm not the only one. I figure if reading the intervallic script & notation it should be quite simple to place them under the caged system with the exception of a note or two here & there.
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I'm got the books not the video and the scale book he talk about CAGED and that his fingers are "CAGED with Extensions". I come from Berklee-ish fingerings and for most part Richie's fingers are like what I use but occasionally he puts a note on B string that I would have on G string and I see he will not include the highest or lowest note of a pattern. Originally Posted by Drapte
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A few stretches in the fingerings reminded me of my three-notes-per-string phase about 30 years ago. I figure the stretches will keep me young. ;o)
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All this enthusiasm is catching, and the price is certainly right but the effort required is a bit of a concern. Can folks honestly estimate the practice time involve to make meaningful use of the monthly updates? It sounds like folks are putting 2+ hours in daily on the material. This sounds potentially doable but if I am really honest, there is no way I would have capacity during the work week for 2+ hours a night, every night. And it's the + bit that is a great unknown here...Don't want to sign up and have it back up for some 'future' time, I want to join in with the collective effort here if it seems like one can make progress by doing a little every day (and a bit more on weekends).So, honest assessment of effort involved folks? Am not a beginner, understand chord/scale construction but have no formal musical education. Thanks
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Odel, I can't speak for anyone else, but I do about 45 minutes per day on this course. I'm on Module 2, and so far can cover the material well enough, I think. Any longer and I would stop concentrating. I have other studies I do at other times of the day.
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Originally Posted by odel
You know I hear people keep mentioning time and it's not about time, it's about the quality of your practice. Some people and guitar players are notorious for practicing hours and hours and getting nothing done. That's playing not practicing. Then they are people with limited time that can sit and totally focus for an hour and get amazing amounts of work done. They usually very organized, go into practice with a plan for the day and knock it out. They tell others around them this is my hour (or two) you don't talk to me, disctract me, don't come near me, this is my time. So don't worry about time focus on practice.
This was part of the early GIT approach to teach by Howard Roberts. All our assignment had timing on them for how long to practice this page. As time went on the timing got shorter. Howard later explained there were two purposes of this and one was for us to learn to control our ability to focus. He said the ability to control turning on and off your focus is very important to playing music and other tasks in life.
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On Module 2 here. I've been slowly digesting the bebop calisthenics for around 3 weeks. I wasn't feeling well and with the holidays haven't put as much time in as I'd like to have done. That said, the practice time that I have spent has been very solid. Metronome set at 60-70 BPM, following Richie's recommendations for how to internalize the calisthenics, I find that they stick in my memory really well. I plan to spend a week or two more with them, then move on to the next parts of Module 2. Richie fully acknowledges that the one month per module schedule is going to be unrealistic for some people, and that's okay.
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I personally think CAGED jumps the shark when you get more chromatic, which jazz is, as well as this course, specifically . I don't think you can judge stretch fingerings of any kind based on simple diatonic or pentatonic patterns. Those are just the starting reference for the course material. Originally Posted by Drapte
I went back-and-forth, kind of fought the stretch fingerings for quite a few years. Melodic minor with CAGED fingerings, and how they relate to their parallel major is just a disaster, again, in my opinion. CAGED is easier on the fingers at first, but the stretch fingerings are much easier on the brain, because the references stay the same. You can make interval connections the way you would on a less confounding instrument than the guitar.
This course is largely about dealing with chromatic targeting patterns. My previous frustrated attempts to work through non-guitar material on the same subject is what actually led me to adopt the stretch fingerings I use now. To be fair, I use first finger stretches versus the fourth finger stretches which are used more in this method.
I have pretty small hands, but have found ways to work through learning to play this way which I'd be happy to share if you're interested. Good luck.
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About monthly updates. It is not expected that you will master everything in a Module in one month. (This goes double for Module 2, which is a bear.) It is not necessary, either. A month should be enough time to get a good handle on what is being taught and be ready to take in some other things (-whatever is in the next module.) Remember: the course is designed to take a year but there are only 9 modules, so three months of review / integration / nailing down elusive exercises and concepts is factored in. And if you're still not done, I think Richie will work out a way for you to continue. Originally Posted by odel
It's designed to keep you going without giving you too much at once. (Mickey Baker's volume 1 was designed to take a year, but he says himself it took him many years to master all that material and he doesn't expect his students to master it faster than he did.) You have to start, then keep moving ahead. Not so fast you don't absorb the material but not so slow you become a perfectionist and thereby hamstring yourself.
Look at the rest of us---we're regular jazz Joes and we're making progress. You can too! ;o) "Be not afraid."
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Matt, I hope you're right! I'm all-in with what Richie's teaching / fingering. (If I bail later, I bail, but as long as I'm in, I'm all in; only then can I know whether his method worked for me.) Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
The stress on intervals is something I need. Saying 'root, third, fifth, flat-seventh' as I play the arpeggios is increasing my fretboard knowledge. I also think he's right about early bebop players focusing more on arpeggios (-chord tones) than scales. I have high hopes for my development this year!
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You're so right, Docbop. That's a key distinction in the book, "First, Learn to Practice." Practice and playing are not the same thing. You can have a guitar in your hands for hours and not actually practice anything. Practice requires concentration and often, a few minutes of it can produce real results. Originally Posted by docbop
For me now, the Bebop Calisthenics are slow going. I have yet to get through all the permutations for patterns I, IV, and V in a single session.(Module 2) Maybe just one pattern and that's all for now. Later, another one. Still later, the third one. I'm taking it slow because this is new to me and I want to get it right. I'm concentrating on the intervals (-not reading the tab) and remaining aware of what I'm doing. When my attention flags, I let it, then move on to something else---maybe play a tune for a minute and enjoy that---and later, practice it some more. It's not about how long I spend doing it: practicing like this for an hour (-total) in a day would beat four hours of half-assing it. ;o)
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It took me a while to get my head around the callisthenics in Module 2. Although painfully slow for a few days, I'm feeling more comfortable with them now, ten days or so in, and am doing them with all seven shapes. Some fit under the hand better than others. I'm not playing fast, by any means, and have no intention of speeding up - if it happens, it happens. But I am always aware of the intervals I'm playing, and am targeting them when doing some Blues improv. It's fun to throw in a few spontaneous upper and lower neighbouring tones, chromatic or otherwise. In fact, I have a fondness for the chromatic variety.
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That's good to hear, Rob! I can tell from just doing them in patterns 1, 4, 5 that there's real bebop meat in there. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
Thanks Rob, that's exactly the info I was seeking. Best, Patrick
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It's funny that you mention this. My mind turns to mush pretty quickly as well. I don't know if it's cheating, but I practice these several different ways (although I haven't in a week or 2) to prevent mush. Bear in mind that I haven't seen any videos, so forgive if I'm restating something which may be obvious to others, but here's some of what I do: Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
1. Practice the (8th note) patterns with the target on the beat (or at least the first target).
2. ...8th note patterns with the target (or first one at least) on the offbeat.
3. The same with triplet rhythms: on the first
4. 2nd...
5. 3rd...
I really aim to get everything to triplets as quickly as possible. Has to be somewhat more solid straight first because your accents change every time polyrhythmically. But that's where the jazz is IMO.
As to 1 and 2 above, my attention flags when the rhythmic reference changes arbitrarily to suit the pattern. So, if one pattern begins with an on-beat 1-7-1, 3.... and the next begins with 5, 1-7-1, 3 because of a different pattern, I'll play second pattern's 5 as an off-beat pickup so that my melodic/rhythmic thing is still going. The repetition trains my ears better and helps my fingers. The pickup flips to the other when I switch to off-beat. May be confusing. Let me know, and I'll clarify.
The mind of a true nerd practicing I guess...
Oh, and I go ahead and play all of them ascending and descending. Most of the ascending patterns have a descending counterpart. Like I say, I'm off the grid somewhat in terms of the videos etc.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 01-03-2016 at 09:33 PM.
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Interesting, thank you for your response. Okay I'll commit to the course with the stretch fingerings, you've sold me Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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For anybody that's interested I have made the fingerings here.
This should serve as a quick resource as opposed to going through the book of fingerings.
I have attached a marked and non marked version. The Marked is not really supposed to refer to the major scale as it supposed to serve as a quick identification for the root of a chord. For example 5 refers to Dominant / Mixolydian. So If you get lost rather then going through the fingerings book you can quickly look at these and see the 5 (Diatonic Dominant). Obviously if you don't know your arpeggios this might be confusing so I've attached some other fingerings I made a while ago if you would like octave to octave arpeggios.
Andrew
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So, you are giving away for free what a professional is charging for? I guess it's only fingerings. Richie is putting forward a way of using them, not the fingerings per se.
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