David Baker Bebop Scales — Barry Harris half-steps

[GuyBoden]

What are they?

As I've already stated:

For chord tones you can add a max of 13 extra notes and for non-chord tones you can add a max of 12 notes. As long as the chord tones are on the downbeats.

[pamosmusic]

As I've already stated:

For chord tones you can add a max of 13 extra notes and for non-chord tones you can add a max of 12 notes. As long as the chord tones are on the downbeats.

Oh okay.

For what it’s worth, this would probably be scale tones on downbeats? Or chord tones landing on the downbeat at the end of the line? Adding so much chromaticism wouldn’t really work if you were putting chord tones in all the downbeats right?

[GuyBoden]

Oh okay.

For what it’s worth, this would probably be scale tones on downbeats? Or chord tones landing on the downbeat at the end of the line? Adding so much chromaticism wouldn’t really work if you were putting chord tones in all the downbeats right?

I'm reversing the ascending and descending, and using longer phrases. But, I think you need to ask or find an expert on Barry Harris' later workshops that used 'Expanded Extra Note Rules' .

Below is what I'm practicing:

[Christian Miller]

See the Pokémon above


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[pamosmusic]

I'm reversing the ascending and descending, and using longer phrases. But, I think you need to ask or find an expert on Barry Harris' later workshops that used 'Expanded Extra Note Rules' .

Below is what I'm practicing:

Yeah this is the same concept generally as the chromatic scale concept. Though in the contents it’s mentioned separately.

I’ve been digging into Thomas Echols single note stuff and it’s really interesting.

He doesn’t mention the expanded eighth note rules, but uses the regular eighth note rules and the chromatic scale as modules, so in practice you end up with little combinations of them, which is really cool.

[GuyBoden]

Yeah this is the same concept generally as the chromatic scale concept.

This is the BH Chromatic scale using G7 starting on the 6th.

This is an example of using the BH 'Expanded Extra Note Rules' using G7 starting on the 6th.


Edit: As I previously stated, 'I think you need to ask or find an expert on Barry Harris' later workshops that used 'Expanded Extra Note Rules' .'

[GuyBoden]

Expanded Rules.

By removing added notes you can see how the BH Chromatic scale can be derived.

Each line below has less 'Added Half Notes'. (Using the G Dom Scale)

[pamosmusic]

This is the BH Chromatic scale using G7 starting on the 6th.

This is an example of using the BH 'Expanded Extra Note Rules' using G7 starting on the 6th.


Edit: As I previously stated, 'I think you need to ask or find an expert on Barry Harris' later workshops that used 'Expanded Extra Note Rules' .'

From context clues this seems like the chromatic scale is a specific iteration of the expanded rules. If you’re using some rules there it looks like it’s the same general principle as the chromatic scale, but rather than a chromatic passing note between whole steps, it’s using some steps up as well.

The rule being more important than the note, etc.

Anyway … this is all a bit past where I am with this at the moment.

[GuyBoden]

Barry Harris 'Expanded extra notes rule'. Adding more and more half step notes to a G Dom line. (I think this is good stuff. )

In the notation below, each subsequent line adds more half steps to a 'G Dom scale' that starts on the 5th.

[Bach5G]

I’m sure the answer to this question is in the 309 replies in this thread, but can you recommend a basic intro to Barry Harris’ methods?

[pamosmusic]

I’m sure the answer to this question is in the 309 replies in this thread, but can you recommend a basic intro to Barry Harris’ methods?

Consensus seems to have been Roni Ben Hur’s “Talk Jazz.”

[pamosmusic]

I’ve been checking out Thomas Echols’s stuff lately and I rather like it, though it’s definitely written by a dude with a doctorate.

With the single note stuff, he takes the modular approach to the max, literally writing out full-page decision tree type diagrams that he calls “multicursals” …

Theyre a bit prescriptive even for me (which is saying something), but I’ve really enjoyed them for building very small sort of cellular exercises like the scale runs. I’ll write something up for that and post it when I’ve had some more time to digest it, but I did find his catalog of possible ideas to be useful here …

1. ABCs (a collection of diatonic thirds, triads, and chords that Barry found to be particularly useful). It’s a bit more limited than Barry’s ABCs.
2. Scale runs with half-step rules.
3. Important arpeggios (triads off important chord tones).
4. Linear scales of chords (linear sixth diminished scales).
5. Chromatic scale (Barry’s version).
6. Multi octave runs (a particular thing I haven’t explored as much.

Anyway … they’re probably roughly in order of how common they are, but it’s helpful to place the scale runs in this context. One of the two or three most important building blocks for the line building, but only one of several building blocks.

[GuyBoden]

Barry Harris 'Expanded extra notes rule'. (These are good lines. )

This is showing how you can add more or less added half notes to a line.

In the notation below, each subsequent line adds less and less half steps to a 'G Dom scale' that starts on the b7th, with the scale tones on the downbeat.


(Did you notice that the last line is using the simple G Dom Bebop scale.)

Next time, I will show some Major ii-V-I lines using the Barry Harris 'Expanded extra notes rule'. (It's good stuff, IMHO. )

[pamosmusic]

Exactly what music education needs. More diagrams and terminology.


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Exactly what this forum needs. More negative vibes all up in my business.

[Christian Miller]

Anyway, modules for improv...

Coltrane visited Barry in Detroit, did you know that? Makes sense as Tommy Flanagan and Paul Chambers were students of his.

So this is what I dug out of Giant Steps, for a video. Probably won't use most of this for the vid. But, it is... the type of stuff Barry taught. The 1-2-3-5 stuff for example (which is well known of course)

[Christian Miller]

Exactly what this forum needs. More negative vibes all up in my business.

Sorry. I'm sure it's great material and I'm sure you are getting a lot from it. The stuff he plays on instagram sounds really nice.

As far as terminology goes, I've always felt it should be only as complicated as it needs to be, which I felt Barry was very good at. I do think Barry would enjoy that he's expanding his ideas, not just repeating them.

[pamosmusic]

Sorry. I'm sure it's great material and I'm sure you are getting a lot from it. The stuff he plays on instagram sounds really nice.

As far as terminology goes, I've always felt it should be only as complicated as it needs to be, which I felt Barry was very good at. I do think Barry would enjoy that he's expanding his ideas, not just repeating them.

Im just joking.

its objectively a lot.

I love it because my learning style is very logical-systematic.

But he is definitely a Smart Boi who isn’t quite sure how to talk to Normal Bois

[pamosmusic]

Exactly what this forum needs. More negative vibes all up in my business.

[Christian Miller]

Im just joking.

its objectively a lot.

I love it because my learning style is very logical-systematic.

But he is definitely a Smart Boi who isn’t quite sure how to talk to Normal Bois

Well, I’m not sure I’m a position to comment from either perspective. I do spend a lot of time trying to distill things that seem at first not too complicated and yet seem to generate 30-45m videos. I have no idea how coherent or helpful the result is to anyone.

I wish I was more systematic about my practice. There’s a lot to be said for it. I’ve actually never got from one end of a method book to another….

But to have a system that you’ve really been thorough with … I envy that. I get distracted so easily.

Sometimes I watch my old videos out of curiosity when I post them here, and think ‘oh that’s a good idea, I should practice that.’


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[PMB]

I'm sure someone's mentioned this upstream but the so-called bebop chromatic major scale is basically a fractal version of the notion that chord tones occur on main beats only now it's moved to the next level of scale tones.

Here's a study I came up with years ago when first encountering this concept through the BH workshops. It's an unbroken descending chromatic major line over a major ii-V-I progression with upward pivots added after each statement to ensure that everything stays within the range of the guitar. We move from the 7th, 5th, 3rd and root of each chord respectively. Diatonic upper neighbour tones are the default additions wherever a semitone occurs in the major scale line (in this example, between F-E & Bb-A) but as BH pointed out, any other diatonic tone can be employed.

[GuyBoden]

BH Expanded Extra Note Rules
(Additions to the Barry Harris Half Step Rules.)

This is only one example, there are many ways to use the BH 'Expanded Extra Note Rules'.

Using a Descending Dom scale with the scale notes on the downbeats.

When the downbeat is on the 4th note, an extra note is inserted between the 4th and 3rd.

When the downbeat is on the b7th note, an extra note between the b7th and 6th.

(The extra note can be a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, but it's usually a scale note.)

The examples below shows Major V-I phrases, the extra note is highlighted in red. (These same phrases can also be used over a Major ii-V-I.)








To my ears, these Barry Harris 'Expanded Extra Note Rules' create some good usable phrases.

[GuyBoden]

I like this simple phrase created using the 'Expanded Extra Note Rules'.
(The extra note is highlighted in red.)

[GuyBoden]

IMHO, if you only learn one lick from Barry Harris' "Expanded Extra Note Rules", this is the lick:


Barry Harris "Expanded Extra Note Rules" ii-V-I type Lick below:







The same lick can be started on any note. Or shortened as shown below: