What do you guys work on when working technique?

[mr. beaumont]

Someone once told me, "If you spend hours practicing playing scales fast, you will learn how to play scales fast."

Take from that what you will.


Re: 700 tunes, not only is that impressive to learn, more impressive is the upkeep.

Following Peter's other thread, I sat down and went through my books, and wrote down every tune I thought I knew. It was around 300.

Then I tried to play some of them. Humbling. Very.

[jazznylon]

Someone once told me, "If you spend hours practicing playing scales fast, you will learn how to play scales fast."

Take from that what you will.

Simple and to the point

[pamosmusic]

Someone once told me, "If you spend hours practicing playing scales fast, you will learn how to play scales fast."

Take from that what you will.


Re: 700 tunes, not only is that impressive to learn, more impressive is the upkeep.

Following Peter's other thread, I sat down and went through my books, and wrote down every tune I thought I knew. It was around 300.

Then I tried to play some of them. Humbling. Very.

Yeah 200 seems to be a big number … I played with a lot of guys who claimed to know around 200 and I believed them all. 400? I don’t remember anyone I knew saying they had that many. And I kind of doubt it.

More than 400?

Thats the Yotams, the Bernsteins (I have a friend who knows him pretty well and guessed it was probably over 1000), the Pasquales.

You can just tell when you go hear them play. I saw Pasquale play at Bar Next Door and I hadn’t even heard of about half the tunes he played. Bernstein is always gigging with semi-obscure deep cuts from niche hard bop records and stuff. Yotam probably knows about as many traditional South American tunes as I know jazz standards. That’s just next level stuff.

[pamosmusic]

I think if I wrote down all the tunes I have known before it would be pushing 200 but that was a past life. I might pleasantly surprise myself on one or two, but the hundred or so I’ve got on my list right now have enough weak spots for me to think that would be a waste of time.

[jazznylon]

I think it might be a good idea to revise tunes even when doing a tune a week thing, maybe an hour a day to spare or something. But anyways I just got back from jamming/rehearsal with the pianist. It was an interesting experience to say the least. My comping became largely bunk since he makes arrangements and comps as well so I mostly focused on playing the melodies alongside him and improvising. I'm still gonna learn to comp particularly on jazz tunes but my main focus will be on melodies and single note improv since thats what the pianist wants of me anyways. But yeah looking forward to jam every week

[AllanAllen]

Piano players are like that. How's your walking bass? When I played All of Me with a piano guy he'd have me walk while he did a solo, just an idea of something you can do under the piano.

[pamosmusic]

I love it how there are all these discussions about how to best coexist with a piano player. Makes me wonder if they have the inverse discussion on jazz piano forums.

Sometimes I want to just kick on the overdrive and powerchord my way through A Train. Let them “lay out and just play like a horn.”

But on the real … I usually just lay out and play like a horn.

Walking bass is a great idea though. Shell voicings can be good too. Kind of volume down, percussive four-on-the floor chunking.

For Mr Nylon … do you have any jazz piano duos you like listening to?

[mr. beaumont]

I love it how there are all these discussions about how to best coexist with a piano player. Makes me wonder if they have the inverse discussion on jazz piano forums.

I'm going to guess no

I actually really like playing with a piano player. I get to pretend to be Ray Crawford. The freedom of not having to play at all is kind of fun.

[supersoul]

I'm going to guess no

I actually really like playing with a piano player. I get to pretend to be Ray Crawford. The freedom of not having to play at all is kind of fun.

and to be able to explore the percussive aspects of the guitar!

[jazznylon]

Piano players are like that. How's your walking bass? When I played All of Me with a piano guy he'd have me walk while he did a solo, just an idea of something you can do under the piano.

Walking bass huh? I haven't tried that but it certainly sounds useful when doing the jazz tunes. I can reach for the low notes on my 10 string while possibly getting out of the way of the pianist. I don't recall the pianist ever soloing (maybe a few times) but he sings though so yeah. Thanks for the idea

I love it how there are all these discussions about how to best coexist with a piano player. Makes me wonder if they have the inverse discussion on jazz piano forums.

Sometimes I want to just kick on the overdrive and powerchord my way through A Train. Let them “lay out and just play like a horn.”

But on the real … I usually just lay out and play like a horn.

Walking bass is a great idea though. Shell voicings can be good too. Kind of volume down, percussive four-on-the floor chunking.

For Mr Nylon … do you have any jazz piano duos you like listening to?

The freedom of being able to play like a horn player is quite liberating. I have heard Jim Hall playing with Bill Evans a couple of times but yeah but thats the only example I can recall at the moment.
Shell voicings while volume down... I should definitedly try that too at least to vary things up. Thank you for your thoughts on this also

[jazznylon]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention! The pianist wanted me to learn Asturias on my 10 string to play as an intro to one of the songs as I demonstrated to him on his guitar in standard tuning (the virtuosic parts). Though to do that on a major thirds tuning sounds tough since I also have to fret the 'B' note where otherwise the standard tuning guitarist could just play it as an open string, and for the major barre chord I have to reduce it down to four essential notes (keeping the bass and top notes while also playing the 2 inner notes). Not sure if its even possible in the end but its worth a shot to try out anyways. If anything if it doesn't work out I could always use a spare guitar tuned in standard. Wish me luck

[st.bede]

Here is my take on things… I always ask myself one question. “Can I see what I am practicing”. I use the word “see” in a holistic sense. It partly relates to my fingers on the fretboard. More important is that, I am really knowing what it is. I can endlessly run scales or licks.. or really whatever from route, but it will have very little impact when I go to create music. What stays with me is what I have placed into a musical context and understand that context. I do not worry to much about technique. My inner spirit/voice/goal or understanding of how I relate to music will always force me to practice what that voice needs. Anyway, that is how I look at things.

[jazznylon]

Here is my take on things… I always ask myself one question. “Can I see what I am practicing”. I use the word “see” in a holistic sense. It partly relates to my fingers on the fretboard. More important is that, I am really knowing what it is. I can endlessly run scales or licks.. or really whatever from route, but it will have very little impact when I go to create music. What stays with me is what I have placed into a musical context and understand that context. I do not worry to much about technique. My inner spirit/voice/goal or understanding of how I relate to music will always force me to practice what that voice needs. Anyway, that is how I look at things.

Placed into a musical context... yeah its kind of hard to imagine what kind of musical context the spider drills for example can be placed under since its so highly chromatic. I guess when it comes to the 4 adjacent string arpeggio spider practice I can see it as sort of useful when playing through key changes of major 3rds (since I'm tuned in major 3rds) but not sure if that happens often with tunes so yeah.. Thank you for your take on things though

But anyways I figured out where the notes are for Asturias (the first few parts) in my tuning. Its just a matter of getting used to it slowly at first and then trying to play at tempo later. Hopefully I'll get it ready by Monday when me and the pianist next jam

[jazznylon]

Something I realized concerning always right hand alternating rest strokes. If the number of the notes are even (like 2 or 4) on a string I can go autopilot as I can pick up automatically from which last finger I used when I crossed the string and cross another string with it. However if the number of notes are odd (1 and 3) I have to be careful because thats when a switch of the fingers occurs. Just something to be wary of in my case.. interesting stuff

[wolflen]

my teacher knew 100+ tunes and some in several keys...

he told me to learn chord functions by roman numerals not names..as many tunes have similar progressions ( iii7 iv7 ii7 V7) etc in their construction

and a ii7 V7 is the same in every key..where Dmi7 G 7 is not the same in every key..

and yes learning where the harmony may go through several key changes it is still easier to remember

C major to Eb Major

CMaj7- G7-- Bb7--EbM7 C7b5 Fmi7 Bb7 EbM7 Db7 Gb7 CMaj7

IM7 V7...V7 IM7 VI7b5 ii7 V7 IM7---bII7 bV7 IM7
CMaj.......EbMaj.................................C Maj.........

which would be easier to memorize and trans pose into another key

[jazznylon]

my teacher knew 100+ tunes and some in several keys...

he told me to learn chord functions by roman numerals not names..as many tunes have similar progressions ( iii7 iv7 ii7 V7) etc in their construction

and a ii7 V7 is the same in every key..where Dmi7 G 7 is not the same in every key..

and yes learning where the harmony may go through several key changes it is still easier to remember

C major to Eb Major

CMaj7- G7-- Bb7--EbM7 C7b5 Fmi7 Bb7 EbM7 Db7 Gb7 CMaj7

IM7 V7...V7 IM7 VI7b5 ii7 V7 IM7---bII7 bV7 IM7
CMaj.......EbMaj.................................C Maj.........

which would be easier to memorize and trans pose into another key

Thats great advice! Yeah roman numerals are helpful especially when one changes keys and stuff. Thankfully its easy to recognize the common progressions as they tend to pop up everywhere

[Bobby Timmons]

I work technique that I can apply to my playing. A lot of the work has to do with independence on organ. You can't think about all the crap you have to execute, you will die lol. So it's essential to have the left hand bass worked into your muscle memory and have the basic patterns that you know you can go to. This frees up processing power for being creative with your right hand. Work out the bass individually and also work bass and comp grooving in time.

I think it's good to work simple chord patterns found in jazz, because a lot of jazz is about being fluent and rhythmic through the changes. Take simple chord patterns like 3,6,2,5 (there's a joe pass vid on that topic) or 1,4,5 blues and try to run stuff fluently. If you can't do that, how are you going to play a tune?

I work a lot on right hand blues vocab. The double stops give me trouble so I try to work them constantly. Any vocab really should be worked out. I work my note organization by scales, arps, and intervals so I practice those and create patterns and ideas out of them. Then work cliches and licks into my muscle memory etc.

Obviously tunes. Getting the heads right with the correct bass part organized well with the right hand on top. If I can't do it, work it out slowly with only a simple bass part like roots only or root and 1 other note only. Take this same approach to solo material. Take simple chord progressions in the bass and work out right hand stuff. Or take only 1 chord, do a bass pattern, and work ideas out in the right hand.

[jazznylon]

I work technique that I can apply to my playing. A lot of the work has to do with independence on organ. You can't think about all the crap you have to execute, you will die lol. So it's essential to have the left hand bass worked into your muscle memory and have the basic patterns that you know you can go to. This frees up processing power for being creative with your right hand. Work out the bass individually and also work bass and comp grooving in time.

I think it's good to work simple chord patterns found in jazz, because a lot of jazz is about being fluent and rhythmic through the changes. Take simple chord patterns like 3,6,2,5 (there's a joe pass vid on that topic) or 1,4,5 blues and try to run stuff fluently. If you can't do that, how are you going to play a tune?

I work a lot on right hand blues vocab. The double stops give me trouble so I try to work them constantly. Any vocab really should be worked out. I work my note organization by scales, arps, and intervals so I practice those and create patterns and ideas out of them. Then work cliches and licks into my muscle memory etc.

Obviously tunes. Getting the heads right with the correct bass part organized well with the right hand on top. If I can't do it, work it out slowly with only a simple bass part like roots only or root and 1 other note only. Take this same approach to solo material. Take simple chord progressions in the bass and work out right hand stuff. Or take only 1 chord, do a bass pattern, and work ideas out in the right hand.

Great post! Yeah I'm hoping to get the always alternating right hand finger technique ingrained in me so I don't have to think about it when playing. Mid Temp I see myself doing it without thinking about it but attempting very fast tempo on autopilot I don't even know which finger is doing what at this point lmao. Fast tempos I need more planning at the moment until at least I can do it on the fly.

But anyways yeah playing bass, harmony, and melody for a tune at the same time sounds like a great idea to learn at least during the week. Obviously organ and piano players are expected to do this but for some reason guitar players are mostly expected to comp and play single note lines seperatedly. I blame rock music but yeah thanks for your thoughts!

[Bobby Timmons]

Thx. I really like getting the intuition and knowledge from playing bass, harmony, and melody. I don't know if I would prioritize it if I were playing guitar since it's not required, but it's nice having that overall knowledge.

[Christian Miller]

Great post! Yeah I'm hoping to get the always alternating right hand finger technique ingrained in me so I don't have to think about it when playing. Mid Temp I see myself doing it without thinking about it but attempting very fast tempo on autopilot I don't even know which finger is doing what at this point lmao. Fast tempos I need more planning at the moment until at least I can do it on the fly.

But anyways yeah playing bass, harmony, and melody for a tune at the same time sounds like a great idea to learn at least during the week. Obviously organ and piano players are expected to do this but for some reason guitar players are mostly expected to comp and play single note lines seperatedly. I blame rock music but yeah thanks for your thoughts!

i dunno I blame my limited technique haha

I’ve been hybrid picking a lot but tbh I find it hard to sequence into my usual way of doing things. Not moving the right hand is a big sacrifice for my picking style.

[jazznylon]

i dunno I blame my limited technique haha

I’ve been hybrid picking a lot but tbh I find it hard to sequence into my usual way of doing things. Not moving the right hand is a big sacrifice for my picking style.

Yeah.. there's that huge technical requirement to pull if off (or rather specific). Controlling bass harmony and melody on guitar at the same time independently is no joke. I may have the technique to do it but conceptually its far too complicated for me which leads to a lot of planning and stuff. If anything I feel what guitar does really well is strumming chords solos and melodies. The advantages are rhythmic and speed hence Nelson Symonds

Re: Definitedly a good idea for me to work on this too! But with 3 note chords for the most part, 4 note chords are a bit more clunky on my tuning

[st.bede]

Placed into a musical context... yeah its kind of hard to imagine what kind of musical context the spider drills for example can be placed under since its so highly chromatic. I guess when it comes to the 4 adjacent string arpeggio spider practice I can see it as sort of useful when playing through key changes of major 3rds (since I'm tuned in major 3rds) but not sure if that happens often with tunes so yeah.. Thank you for your take on things though

But anyways I figured out where the notes are for Asturias (the first few parts) in my tuning. Its just a matter of getting used to it slowly at first and then trying to play at tempo later. Hopefully I'll get it ready by Monday when me and the pianist next jam

That is true. It is one reason I am not investing any time with spiders. I tried to work them into a musical context. I was never able to really get them to function in a useful way. I still think there might be a way of setting up a system.

I never really understood what spiders were supposed to help facilitate, outside of classical technique.

I tend to keep my chord grips small and logical by throwing away not needed notes.

When it came to ligado stuff, it was easy to break it up and turn them into passing notes, enclosures, blue notes or, sequences.

[jazznylon]

That is true. It is one reason I am not investing any time with spiders. I tried to work them into a musical context. I was never able to really get them to function in a useful way. I still think there might be a way of setting up a system.

I never really understood what spiders were supposed to help facilitate, outside of classical technique.

I tend to keep my chord grips small and logical by throwing away not needed notes.

When it came to ligado stuff, it was easy to break it up and turn them into passing notes, enclosures, blue notes or, sequences.

Same when it comes to small chord grips. I do like lush big voicings time to time but 3 note voicings for me are more practical and there's always an extra finger or two available to use just in case. Spider stuff... dominant vocabulary?