Plectrums for acoustic jazz

[Thallishman]

Hi everyone,
Im looking for some advice/considerations regarding plectrums(picks). I exclusively play acoutic so the pick is a great tool to shape the sound. My playstyle is mostly four-to-the-bar rhyhm, some chord soloing, some chord-melody. Think earlier jazz styles(20s/30s/40s)

Over the years i tried a few, but im considering investing in something that will do the job for me. I'll list some I liked so far and some that dont work for me.

Dunlop jazztone 207 & 208
I like their timbre(mellow atack, darkish), however maybe not the most practical plectrum in loud situations.

Dunlop gator grip 2.0mm
Nice volume, i think I wouldnt want to go lower than 1.5mm. Standaard shape.

Dunlop primetone 307, 308, 507 and 508
I suprisingly liked the dimple in here for holding. Weirdly enough i like the 308 but for the 5mm i like the 507 better. The 5mm are great when i still need to hear myself when there is much going on. But the tone does become 'blown up'

Each pick shape and material will have its pro and cons. I'm considering the casein picks from Hense, 2mm or 2.7mm. Anyone have experience with these materials? I do like plectrums that slide through strings nicely.

I also see other materials: acetate, bakelite, horn, bone, mother of pearl, wood. How usefull are these? I like the idea of no plastic, but might not be practical...

Im EU bassed so bonus if the brands are available here.

Brands i have my eye on: Dugain, Wegen, Hense, timbre tones, thomann housebrand

[garybaldy]

There's something about the Clayton Acetal picks. I use a large rounded triangle 1mm. I have shaped them to a 351.

[Thallishman]

Maybe should add some i didnt like:
Dunlop delrin
Dunlop ultex
Dunlop flow
Nylon

[Mick-7]

I think you'll only know for sure what picks you prefer by trying them. I'd just buy a variety pack of picks made of various materials like these:

Dunlop Pick Variety Pack
D'Addario Assorted Guitar Picks

Wasted my money on these: Clayton Duraplex Guitar Picks

[JazzPadd]

I play an old archtop for jazz and I’m fond of its acoustic tone. My pick quest ended with Blue Chip Jazz. Pricey but def worth a try.

[Simon1234]

Try Wegen picks. I like the small "Twins" size and shape.
Easily available in UK. I get mine from Clifford Essex on eBay.

[Spook410]

If you consider input from the gypsy jazz community, thick and beveled would be the starting point.

I use different picks for electric archtops (L5, ES175) and acoustic archtops (Chinese Benedetto pattern). For acoustic I like casein. I favor the boutique brands (e.g. Honeypicks) to get the X-large triangle 3mm thick models I like.

Thing is, you need a container with different pick materials, shapes, and sizes to work with over time. It makes a lot of difference to your tone and playing and takes time to sort out.

[entresz]

My personal preference is the Wegen 2.5mm gypsy jazz pick, I use that on all my electric/amplified guitars.

On a straight acoustic I use the regular Wegen 3.5mm gypsy jazz pick. They're not cheap, but they sound great and 'glide' over the strings, making playing fast passages easier.

[Christian Miller]

For rhythm guitar Bucky Pizarellli suggested a light pick, less than 1mm IIRC. I’ve tried this and it works very well. Difficult for lead though haha. Sounds like it would suit you? Try it.

Over the years I’ve gone from using fancy Wegen picks to 1.5mm bog standard tortex Jim dunlops.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[garybaldy]

Try Wegen picks. I like the small "Twins" size and shape.
Easily available in UK. I get mine from Clifford Essex on eBay.

Great for GJ on an oval or a D hole.
I find them to chirpy and bright on a regular AT.

[58flame]

Fender CHUGG. The only pick I use now.

[pcjazz]

For rhythm guitar Bucky Pizarellli suggested a light pick, less than 1mm IIRC. I’ve tried this and it works very well. Difficult for lead though haha. Sounds like it would suit you? Try it.

Over the years I’ve gone from using fancy Wegen picks to 1.5mm bog standard tortex Jim dunlops.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The super-light Fender picks like the one Bucky had me try sound great but break very quickly. I am now using the yellow or green Dunlop Tortex for big band rhythm, and occasionally a Herco medium nylon flatpick.

[m_d]

I like the 1.3 mm Dunlop small triangle Primetone. That line looks like they copied Blue Chip. But they're good with perfect finish and virtually don't wear out. Rigidity or thickness should not be an issue in theory - the best strummers I've ever heard (people like Andy Wood, Joscho Stephan, or the amazing teacher I had back in the day in Paris) all use thick picks.

[supersoul]

Rigidity or thickness should not be an issue in theory

In practice I find that the thickness/rigidity matters a lot. I mostly use Dunlop Tortex, but different thicknesses which all sound different. Thicker is less clicky/more dark sounding.
Picks are an easy way of changing my basic sound without having to change anything else. They're like physical tone controls or something.
But as with everything, YMMV!

[Thallishman]

Thanks alot for the input all.
Like spook410 said, i bring a container with a few. Currently its the dunlop gator 2mm and the dunlop 507&508 for big volume.(which are wegen copies i believe).

Im still experimenting a bit so dropping larger amount of euros on picks doesnt make sense just yet.

Im going to try a get on hand a few single picks. The mentioned dunlop primetone in 1.5mm 2mm and maybe up. On youtubevids they still seem bright but i like the attack sound better than the normal ultex plectrums. It will also let me learn if i like bevel or not.
Fender chugg is 1.5mm, could be nice.
Blue chip is hard to find, one shop sell them for €50. Dont particular like the timbre, although i see why other would.
Wegen: makes sense to have a big/thick one. But for now it's dunlop 507&508.

I heard some recordings with Hense midnight and the casein which sound nice. Also some kirinite. But again need to experiment just a bit more with thickness and some shapes.

So far i eliminated: jazz iii, anything with sharp point, dunlop flow, unbeveled ultex, those small mandoline picks, Dunlop jazztones(the sizes dont sit well with me). 351 standaard works, maybe rounded triangles can work. Need to try out some.

[m_d]

In practice I find that the thickness/rigidity matters a lot. I mostly use Dunlop Tortex, but different thicknesses which all sound different. Thicker is less clicky/more dark sounding.
Picks are an easy way of changing my basic sound without having to change anything else. They're like physical tone controls or something.
But as with everything, YMMV!

Agree with that of course, different materials and thicknesses can have a huge impact, what I meant to say was that thin picks are not necessarily easier or better for strumming. Some also claim strumming is easier with the rounded edge and while that may be true to an extent, (proper?) technique makes it possible to use the pointy edge with no issues.

I've been losing my mind trying to learn chord tremolo technique in the past weeks. I think I'm finally getting closer. Yesterday evening I discovered something that I still need to confirm because it just doesn't make sense to me. I had been trying to do the gypsy style, cocked wrist angle setup, in vain - it just seemed impossible and unnatural. But it's beginning to click. Kudos to the geniuses who invent such things, I could never figure them out by myself. What doesn't make sense, in that I can't understand why, is that the sound seems to be projecting more or louder or clearer that way, compared to a more conventional wrist position with less angle...

[Mick-7]

So far i eliminated: jazz iii, anything with sharp point, dunlop flow, unbeveled ultex, those small mandoline picks, Dunlop jazztones(the sizes dont sit well with me). 351 standaard works, maybe rounded triangles can work. Need to try out some.

We had a thread here a while back about guitarists who pick with the rounded edge rather than the pointed edge of their plectrum. Also, a few forum members mentioned they file down the pointed edge of their pick.

[sgosnell]

I got some Tusq picks as lagniappe when I bought a Tusq nut and saddle, and while I didn't initially like them much, I've found that they sound good when playing acoustically. The tan colored ones sound best to me, the black ones are much too dark, and the white ones are in between. The big triangle tan ones are the best I've found for acoustic rhythm playing.
TUSQ Picks - Bi Angle 4 Pack | Graph Tech Guitar Labs

[dconeill]

Hi everyone,
Im looking for some advice/considerations regarding plectrums(picks). ... Think earlier jazz styles(20s/30s/40s)
...

Back in the days of my misspent youth (1960s) I took lessons from a big band guitarist (Jack Ambrose, RIP). He liked big triangular tortoise-shell picks, so of course I got a bunch of them. In the 1970s or so tortoise-shell picks became illegal. I lost most of them in a load-out misadventure, but I might still have one or two around.

The closest for sound I've found since have been Dunlop Tortex picks, usually the heavier (1 and 1.14mm) varieties. They're available in several shapes; I've come to favor the large teardrop shape, but they make a large triangle as well. The Dunlop Primetone series are similar.

[customxke]

Fender 358 heavy is what I use, and I play primarily trad-jazz/4 to the bar/probably-should-be-playing-tenor-banjo-but-everyone-hates-jazz-banjo style music.

[dconeill]

... Rigidity or thickness should not be an issue in theory ...

What theory is that? Everything makes a difference, ask any physicist.

Rigidity makes a difference in the way the pick releases the string. More rigid = less energy is used in deforming the pick as it bears against the string. Thickness is somewhat secondary, being mostly related to rigidity, but the thickness of the pick affects the amount of time it takes to move past the string once the string is contacted.

Shape of the pick and edge treatment of the pick also have effects on how the pick behaves.

And, of course, there's the material.

I have no idea which of these (and other factors) most affects the behavior of the pick. All of them affect it to some degree.

Almost certainly the player has more of an effect on the behavior of the pick than any of these other factors.

[Thallishman]

I got some Tusq picks as lagniappe when I bought a Tusq nut and saddle, and while I didn't initially like them much, I've found that they sound good when playing acoustically. The tan colored ones sound best to me, the black ones are much too dark, and the white ones are in between. The big triangle tan ones are the best I've found for acoustic rhythm playing.
TUSQ Picks - Bi Angle 4 Pack | Graph Tech Guitar Labs

I just got the 3 types in standard 1mm. Funily I don't like the white bright one, warm(vanille colour) an dark one are quite nice. I have an triangle in 2mm. Sonically they are really interesting. Almost like harmonic 'hair'/band saturators. However, not usefull my 'swing'playing.

@39dconeill
I never played animal tortoise pick, don't need to. Though very interesting to hear about your experience. I just double checked, and dunlop tortex and gator should both be made from delrin. Therefor should be close in sound. Agrees the triangle might be bit louder, the material flex different due to shape.

@customxke
No hate from me! I visit a trad /early jazz festival every year.
I'm trying to get a hold an Fender chugg which is 1.5mm, which I think is even thicker to the extra heavy fender picks(which are 1.2mm I read)

[m_d]

What theory is that? Everything makes a difference, ask any physicist.

Rigidity makes a difference in the way the pick releases the string. More rigid = less energy is used in deforming the pick as it bears against the string. Thickness is somewhat secondary, being mostly related to rigidity, but the thickness of the pick affects the amount of time it takes to move past the string once the string is contacted.

Shape of the pick and edge treatment of the pick also have effects on how the pick behaves.

And, of course, there's the material.

I have no idea which of these (and other factors) most affects the behavior of the pick. All of them affect it to some degree.

Almost certainly the player has more of an effect on the behavior of the pick than any of these other factors.

I simply meant to say a rigid or thick pick is not an issue for strumming as witnessed by many great strummers using such picks - but many people still maintain a soft pick is better for that purpose - and that's just a theory because facts say otherwise. And yes, Jim Hall was a wonderful strummer and used a soft pick. BTW a picking technique where the pick bears against the string is not be an efficient one, perhaps you meant across - see Troy Grady's material for countless examples. He also has a large section nerding out on just pick types, shapes and materials. I've tried many types myself. Picks are a fun part of our gear as they can make a huge difference and cost nothing.

The Fender Chugg appears to be a new kid on the block. I found one in a store. I thought it was equal to the 1.5 mm D'Andrea, maybe slightly better due to the bevels. But I still prefer the Primetone small triangle, for the time being.

[Mick-7]

We had a thread here a while back about guitarists who pick with the rounded edge rather than the pointed edge of their plectrum. Also, a few forum members mentioned they file down the pointed edge of their pick.

Here's the thread I mentioned in my post quoted above -- Why Do The World's Best Guitarists Play On the Round Corner?

[Christian Miller]

I find with picks it's important to dissociate the feel with the sound. So record yourself playing with other picks and you may be surprised even if you feel the pick isn't giving as much control as you like, you may find that sonically everything is clean.