Plectrums for acoustic jazz

[garybaldy]

I find with picks it's important to dissociate the feel with the sound. So record yourself playing with other picks and you may be surprised even if you feel the pick isn't giving as much control as you like, you may find that sonically everything is clean.

Exactly what I find with the Clayton Acetals. Not easy to control but give a great sound.
The Delrin 500s are easier to use as they slip against the strings but they add a slight chirp. Chirp is ok for GJ stuff though but then I use a Wegen.

[Thallishman]

If you consider input from the gypsy jazz community, thick and beveled would be the starting point.

I use different picks for electric archtops (L5, ES175) and acoustic archtops (Chinese Benedetto pattern). For acoustic I like casein. I favor the boutique brands (e.g. Honeypicks) to get the X-large triangle 3mm thick models I like.

Thing is, you need a container with different pick materials, shapes, and sizes to work with over time. It makes a lot of difference to your tone and playing and takes time to sort out.

How' your experience with casein (galalith) picks? Which brand model have you tried?
I'm curious about the material, al so worried it may break.(Or warp).

I would like to get my hand on one, on recordings they sound high mid sparkly with subtle highend roll of. Quite direct attack. I feel the turtleshell marketing is misleading, however pleasing they are.

[Spook410]

How' your experience with casein (galalith) picks? Which brand model have you tried?
I'm curious about the material, al so worried it may break.(Or warp).

I would like to get my hand on one, on recordings they sound high mid sparkly with subtle highend roll of. Quite direct attack. I feel the turtleshell marketing is misleading, however pleasing they are.

I suppose they have some things in common with actual tortise shell picks. Not why I use them though. The material just seems a good compromise to get some clarity without going as far as say ultem or acrylic on the bright scale.

As for available models.. depends on the size/configuration you like. John Pearse fast turtle picks sound good but wish the big center carve out wasn't there. The D'Addario standard and Chris Thile modes sound good and are well made. However, for $20 a pick I order from Honey Picks (Honey Picks ) to get the configuration I like along with cool colors. Only downside is their material seems a bit brighter than Pearse/D'Addario. In addition, you might also like their kirinite picks. They look kind of amazing. A bit brighter than the casein but sometimes that's what you want. Or not. Haven't figured out why things can change day to day.

All that being said.. still use the inexpensive Dunlop Americana 3mm large triangle quite a bit. Good price. Not as pretty. Comparable tone.

[Christian Miller]

Exactly what I find with the Clayton Acetals. Not easy to control but give a great sound.
The Delrin 500s are easier to use as they slip against the strings but they add a slight chirp. Chirp is ok for GJ stuff though but then I use a Wegen.

One thing I learned from singing is that the subjective illusion of control is often counterproductive. I should try to remember that more often!

With guitar technique, I often find that I try to over-control which creates tension.

[garybaldy]

One thing I learned from singing is that the subjective illusion of control is often counterproductive. I should try to remember that more often!

With guitar technique, I often find that I try to over-control which creates tension.

A loose grip is key but without dropping the pick!

[Thallishman]

...

Thanks for your input! Not all the mentioned brand are easily availlble here. Hense 'happy turtle' are and would suspect daddario's casein are made by Hense. They are extremly expensive, 30...35 euros. Hense are 13...20 euros, makss bit more sense.

Curiosity got the better of me so i ordered some: hense casein, dandrea pro plec clayton acetate, hense 2,3mm celluloid(thick for celluloid i think!)

Still curious about a few: dandria ultra, primetone smooth, ibanez elastomer, westville(might be like dandrea pro plec?)

BTW would anyone know if taylor "darktones" are made by dandrea? Ivoroid, thermex, ultra etc.

[FourOnSix]

Still curious about a few: dandria ultra, primetone smooth, ibanez elastomer, westville(might be like dandrea pro plec?)

Westville are not similar to D'Andrea Pro Plec IMO. I much prefer the Westville, even aside from the fact that they don't have the warpage issue.

[niftyprose]

I started using Hell Superblacks a few years ago for mandocello:

Super Blacks Picks | Hellparts

...and now use them for everything. Pay no attention to the rockist merchandising which surrounds them, they're just big, fat, stiff lightweight picks with excellent grip. The plastic of which they're made has an oddly greasy quality. (I understand that was why people liked tortoiseshell so much, tho I lack hands-on.)

I've found them excellent with acoustic mandocello and mandolin, acoustic tenor, and now electric tenor. Relatively cheap, too, closer to the Jim Dunlops on the guitar shop counter than the special order stuff.

[Woody Sound]

I think that a lighter pick gives you more acoustic "sparkle," but with less volume. *Same thing with string gauge.*

[Christian Miller]

It’s not just pure volume, it’s also an eq thing


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[nyc chaz]

I find when playing acoustcally,lighter pick on heavy strings,heavier pick on lighter strings.I was watching a video of a guy playing one of the guitars in the Blue collection a few years ago.Guitar sounded great,player had great technique but he used a heavy pick on heavy strings and there was a pre click on every note which totally killed the sound of such a fine guitar.Unless someone is playing gypsy jazz,i find that click to be like nails on a blackboard irritating.

[Spook410]

Material and bevel have a lot more to do with a pick clicking on the strings than thickness.

Edit: Should just say material and bevel matter. For instance 2mm blue chip picks don't click. 2mm acrylic picks do. Seems that thicker may be clickier than thinner when using hard materials.. possibly? Seems that way around here at times but ymmv. Not something I'm very focused on but ultem, kirinite, acrylic, and even casein seem clicky at 3mm. Resin and real tortise don't seem to. Also, high tech plastic from Blue Chip, Honey Picks, and Gravity Picks don't seem clicky.

[olejason]

I've been pretty happy with the Wegen Big City 1.8mm for Gypsy Jazz and it works well on my archtops as well. There is a bit of chirp like any thicker pick but it's not as prominent as casein or acrylic picks. I have some of the thicker Big City picks as well which are a little louder for single note lines but they're not quite as nimble if you're doing the 30's Allan Reuss soloing thing.

Someone gifted me a Chris Thile Blue Chip pick and I really like how that sounds on acoustic archtop. The shape isn't quite what I prefer but I'm planning on investing in one a little more similar to what I'm used to.

[m_d]

Here's the thread I mentioned in my post quoted above -- Why Do The World's Best Guitarists Play On the Round Corner?

I've heard that claim time and again and wonder what it is based on. I mean, we have evidence now. Not a single one of the players interviewed by Troy Grady plays on the round corner. Many of them don't just have great picking technique, but what Troy has sometimes called "space age" technique. All among the best in the world at what they do. Andy Wood, Joscho Stephan (jazz), Olli Soikkeli (jazz), Molly Tuttle, Martin Miller... plus all the metal guys, not to mention Troy himself: all play with the pointy corner.

[Mick-7]

I've heard that claim time and again and wonder what it is based on. I mean, we have evidence now. Not a single one of the players interviewed by Troy Grady plays on the round corner. Many of them don't just have great picking technique, but what Troy has sometimes called "space age" technique. All among the best in the world at what they do. Andy Wood, Joscho Stephan (jazz), Olli Soikkeli (jazz), Molly Tuttle, Martin Miller... plus all the metal guys, not to mention Troy himself: all play with the pointy corner.

That thread is about older players who don't pick with the pointy end of a pick or use round shaped picks. There's a much greater variety of picks available now-a-days, it's become an entire industry, so players will have no trouble finding a pick that suits them, which may or may not mean one with a round tip.

[McGregor]

ToneSlab….
Not cheap, but has the feel and tone for jazz and blues without the pick slap.

sounds amazing with Thomastiks Flats

[Thallishman]

Ive had a chance to test a whole bunch thusfar. Sharing my impressions here which might help as inspiration for others. Though your personal preference, gear/technique/style etc might be different!

I play fairly boldly(acoustic swing and GJ). With silvered strings .012-gauge sets on cedar top folk guitar.

D'Andrea pro plec
Nice, slight dark sounding, material glides nicely. Sadly had a few that were warped, but seller suplied me with new ones. Not a bad pick, but hard to drive big volume. Can easily imagine it being nice pick for archtops with pickup. The hold was not too slipy. Not alot of pick noise.

Clayton acetal
Material has nice brightness, atack quite temperamental, but they felt too large and the edge was grabby. Not for me.

Dunlop primetone smooth
Tried 1.5mm to 3mm interesting sound: very direct, low-end cut and resonant peak in high mid. In terms of loudness i've learned that from 2mm they dont really get louder, its more of an eq shift. Thicker = more bass and less bright. To me the shape is slighty big or just didnt feel completly secure but i feel other will likely not have that problem.

Fender true shell x-heavy
Got curious, its non translucent casein. Not the same as german casein. It started to warp with 2 times use. The ink smell badly and gets loose. Cannot recommend. Sound was direct and nice harmonic sparkle.

Hense happy turtle standard(351) 2mm(XHeavy) beveled
Direct but very sweet sounding. Almost like an ribbon mic kind of character. Velvet-y. Nice volume very sensitive dynamics. Very light to hold and very smooth, material doesnt flex. Although i felt anxious that it will slip it doesn't. I can see why people like this material.

I still use the black dunlop gator and in band setting the dunlop 307(round tip). I also found that going a string gauge thicker get your more volume than the pick/plectrum. Maybe i do a thread about strings, but I still some sets to try first.

Thanks all for sharing your suggestions and helping me in my highly individual journey

[Christian Miller]

Did a gig acoustically last week and my Fender medium lasted about two songs.
I’m a basher I guess.


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[Thallishman]

Would anyone know if there are other pick brands that have the same sizing as the Dunlop gator and D'Andrea pro plec?

I notice these are just a fraction smaller than dunlop tortex or the dandrea ultra plec. And i really prefer the smaller gator and pro plec sizing.

Edit:
The Hense plecs happy turtle casein without speedbevel/spielkante, is exactly that size and has the same bevel as the dunlop gators picks.