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One of these has shown up in my town for sale. Does anyone here have any experience with these as a straight ahead jazz box? Opinions? Do you think it would need a new tailpiece and bridge to make it useable in a jazz context? I'd appreciate some feedback on this. Thanks!
Alan
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02-13-2021 04:06 PM
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Not typically thought of as a 'traditional' jazz box but it'll do the job fine as it's similar to an ES175.
Organist Jimmt Smith's first guitar player Thornel Schwartz used one for a number of years and Danny Gatton played one occasionally.
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I had one, a 2015 model. Lovely Gibson made like the 1959 RI VOS Es175. Same construction, light weight wood, smaller neck block, like a vintage 50s guitar.
Large D shaped neck. .875, but nice feeling.
The tailpiece had nice sustain. But the high E string had an awful sitar buzzing sound that could not be eliminated. I handed this to a repair person multiple times, and he gave it back in the same condition, with no difference. It's that bridge. And the repair shop I never used again.
But, the trapeze tailpiece and rosewood/tune-o-matic bridge would be the solution to that. You will have to drill a few holes to install the new tailpiece.
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Great info, that's just the kind of feedback that I was looking for. This one is also a 2015 model. We have a great luthier/repair shop here, so I would not be averse to making the change to the tailpiece and bridge. I was just wondering what the intonation was like with that strange bridge. I guess I'll find out if I'm able to check it out next week. Thanks!
Originally Posted by PDeville
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that's same tailpiece that was on the original les paul!...sure your odds of getting perfect intonation with it are virtually nil...but that's part of it's vintage charm...looks cool...and good enough for thornel!^ hah
cheers
ps- looks super cool in red!
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If it's good enough for a guitar player who is good enough to play with Jimmy Smith, it's certainly good enough for me! Originally Posted by neatomic
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I had no serious problem with intonation. It seemed good to me with .12 - 52
But the sitar buzz on the E string is typical on a wrap tail bridge (like a 54 Les Paul style), and really a problem on the bridge/trapeze on the 295.
I have heard a good blues and rockabilly player with an original 50s model just play with the buzzing sound anyway! HaHa!! Through a clean amp, it is REALLY noticeable. Hey, some people don't mind. I would have the guy play it over the phone.
Also, consider whether you like the P90 in that guitar. I much prefer the single humbuckers in the VOS ES175.
But with the P90s you can do really cool 50 blues and roots rock sounds on that guitar.
Those VOS 50s style guitar are really great. I still have 59RI 175 and play that every day.
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That is a beautiful guitar you have there! I have a garden variety 2008 ES 175D, so the P90 is something that interests me as an alternative sound. I almost always play clean so an innate buzz would be a deal breaker for me. The guitar I'm looking at is at a store, so I will be able to try it out and give it a good listen and going over. I appreciate your input and sharing of your experience. Originally Posted by PDeville
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I would try it first , with fat strings , I’ll bet
it intonates just fine ....
i would a great shame to change it ....
its absolutely beautiful as it is ....
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the best sounding 175 i ever played was a 295
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Yeah, I totally get that. It either works for me as it is, or I pass. It is a stunning guitar. Originally Posted by pingu
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I’ve heard people say this can give good results with a Les Paul. It might work with a 295 too. It’s made by Mojoaxe.
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[QUOTE=ThatRhythmMan;1099262]I’ve heard people say this can give good results with a Les Paul. It might work with a 295 too. It’s made by Mojoaxe.
QUOTE] That is a cool device but it looks like it is slanted for a plain G. I would be playing TI Swing Flats with a wound G.
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I've never seen a red one! Nice!!
As far as the reported "sitar" sound above, that's a poorly-cut nut issue.
I love the 295 tone, so much I just bought a set of these from Pete Biltoft to put in my 6120 Gretsch:
P90s in Filtertron covers
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"sitaring" is always a bridge issue...sitars have flat bridges that promote that type of buzzing...hence the name
not to say badly cut nut slots can't wreak havoc...just not labelled "sitaring"
the problem is, on the low E string (which requires the longest string length) there is not enough break angle off the bridge...so it buzzes...that can happen with many guitars...but on that vintage one piece bridge/tailpiece, there's no real way to fix it!
also standard strings circa 1952 woulda been closer to 14's!!...12's were considered light or med light well into the 60's
cheers
ps- sad as it may seem...to replace that oddball tailpiece with a kluson type tailpiece and a floating bridge base & saddle would not be too difficult or invasive...some screw holes on the bottom rim might have to be tweaked....but nothing to the top of the guitar...in plain sight
pss- les paul designed that tailpiece to add acoustic resonance to his solid lp
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interesting...do you know the resistance K? the gauge of wire used?...tough to replicate the flat large bobbin wind of a gibby p-90 in a narrow deep filtertron design..changes it all up Originally Posted by ruger9
I love the 295 tone, so much I just bought a set of these from Pete Biltoft to put in my 6120 Gretsch:
P90s in Filtertron covers
they look cool tho! leave it to pb
cheers
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Originally Posted by neatomic
By ' acoustic ' do you mean ' unamplified ' ?
. Thx
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I have a ES-225 and a 67 SG Jr both with bar bridges. I have never had a problem with buzzing or intonation as long as you use heavy strings. I would never change the bridge on either guitar. Just be sure the string has a clear break angle and you should have no problem. By the way that is a nice looking guitar.
Thanks John
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well no...since any part of the guitar plugged into an amp is amplified! Originally Posted by Dennis D
he tried to bring out more resonance by having a direct but lengthy connection between bridge and lower rim of body...which influences string vibration
different but in the same thought as what epi did with the frequensator...tho completely different designs!
cheers
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More like, Les Paul designed that tailpiece to add licensing fees from Gibson to his bank account. Originally Posted by neatomic
Selmer did exactly the same thing to Hofner by re-badging Dick Knight's Straton tailpiece as a "Hofner Compensator" and insisting that it be installed on several of the Hofner archtops they distributed. Clever trick.
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What gauges and brand of strings are you using on your ES-225? What style of music do you use it for? Originally Posted by powerwagonjohn
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Disagree- not "always.". I had a sitarring issue with a high E string, and it was a poorly cut nut: the nut slot should ramp down towards the headstock, not be flat. Once I sloped that nut slot properly, the issue disappeared. Originally Posted by neatomic
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No idea on the gauge of wire, but the DCRs are: 8.8K, 7.5K Originally Posted by neatomic
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This forum is a joy to read. There is a mixture of focus on technology, tone, art, style and nostalgia.
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I must say, that looks much nicer in cherry than in gold. (jmo)
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