Mike Stern Rig Rundown

[ruger9]

Stern's rig rundown was actually one of my favorites. Seems like such a cool, normal cat.

I've seen him live (with Eric Johnson). Watched alot of YT stuff. He's just not my bag. I don't care if he's "jazz or not", his playing doesn't speak to me.

And that's ok.

No one's playing speaks to everyone. That's how art forms work. If you dig him, great. If you don't, fine- doesn't make you wrong, just means you don't dig him.

I'm sure there are people who "don't get" Frisell, or Campilongo. No worries. Dig what you dig. Just don't ridicule others if they DON'T dig what you dig. Dig?

[christianm77]

Where's the fun in that?

[ruger9]

Hey Stern fans-

If someone asked you, "where to START" with Stern.... what would you tell them? Keep in mind, your favorite Stern may not be the same answer as "best place to start" with Stern....

Sort of like "if you don't like THIS Stern, then Stern just isn't your guy" lol

[christianm77]

Hey Stern fans-

If someone asked you, "where to START" with Stern.... what would you tell them? Keep in mind, your favorite Stern may not be the same answer as "best place to start" with Stern....

Sort of like "if you don't like THIS Stern, then Stern just isn't your guy" lol

Stern ripping it up with Bob Berg back in the 80s? Chromazone and all that stuff. Massively dated, sure, but it has vibe coming out of its ears.

[ronjazz]

The good thing is Mike Stern has an identifiable guitar style. The bad is its very cold sounding and void of warmth associated with say even John Scofield.I think Mike is a great player for sure,but cares little for his overall tone.And while this can be said of many Jazz players, it really gets in the way for me as a listener. I also feel he tends to play the same solo as far as telling a story.I think if he got rid of the digital delay and chorus it would be to his advantage.But it sure has not hurt his career,nor keep people from hiring him as a sideman.

funny, Sco's tone is cold and keeps me from enjoying him. Stern's tone is warm and fat and fluid, and those who think he plays the same solo repeatedly really need to get some ear training.

[ruger9]

Stern ripping it up with Bob Berg back in the 80s? Chromazone and all that stuff. Massively dated, sure, but it has vibe coming out of its ears.

Done. Watched some Miles w/Stern as well (that's the most bluesy/rocky I've heard Stern play).

To me, I call that fusion. Again- *I* call that fusion. I would not classify that as "jazz" in my own mind, other than saying if it's not definable as anything else (rock, blues, country, etc), then it must be jazz. I actually downloaded Simon Phillips Protocol (with Andy Timmons- I'm a big Timmons fan), and as much as I love Timmons, I just can't get into SPP.

It's just not my bag, baby. I just watched Stern's rig rundown again, damn I love the guy... what he plays just doesn't speak to me.
(altho, I DO "get" how exciting it must have been at the time... that was sort of the high time of fusion, no? Exciting and NEW?) Perhaps it's one of those "had to be there" things?

But that's ok. A friend of mine and I were talking music once, and he's a huge Bob Dylan fan. I am not. I've always been a Springsteen fan, he is NOT. Interesting, since Dylan was one of Bruce's biggest influences. My friend summed it up quite well I thought: "hey- you can't like everybody."

[blille]

Hey Stern fans-

If someone asked you, "where to START" with Stern.... what would you tell them? Keep in mind, your favorite Stern may not be the same answer as "best place to start" with Stern....

Sort of like "if you don't like THIS Stern, then Stern just isn't your guy" lol

I started with the Brecker Brothers growing up. Maybe you don’t like Stern, but how about Michael Brecker?

I agree with the Bob Berg comment. He also made a standards album.

[Bbmaj7#5#9]

Mike Stern has always been too much to me and my ears. Neither his playing or tone have caught me musically. Even though fusion was the first style that made me interested in jazz music, I would never consider Stern as my favorite guitarist in fusion music. I rather listen to Georg ”Jojje” Wadenius and Steve Khan from BST than Stern.

[christianm77]

Done. Watched some Miles w/Stern as well (that's the most bluesy/rocky I've heard Stern play).

To me, I call that fusion. Again- *I* call that fusion. I would not classify that as "jazz" in my own mind, other than saying if it's not definable as anything else (rock, blues, country, etc), then it must be jazz. I actually downloaded Simon Phillips Protocol (with Andy Timmons- I'm a big Timmons fan), and as much as I love Timmons, I just can't get into SPP.

Thought you meant Bobby Timmons for a second... OK so the thing that's interesting to me about the whole Brecker Bros/Stern/Berg cohort is they were all bop language players working in fusion music. Sure they played the big 80's pentatonic licks (Brecker was just as influenced by rock guitarists as Stern) but they are so steeped in bop vocabulary it's seems wrong to me to compare them to the more rock oriented fusion players. They are New York guys.

The Stern stuff with Miles is badass - Star People is great.

If you want to listen to Stern the jazz standards guitarist, you are looking at more recent stuff. My favourite playing of his is what I heard at the 55 bar in 2017. Pure bop with electric instruments. Fantastic stuff, and that was the year of his injury.

It's just not my bag, baby. I just watched Stern's rig rundown again, damn I love the guy... what he plays just doesn't speak to me.
(altho, I DO "get" how exciting it must have been at the time... that was sort of the high time of fusion, no? Exciting and NEW?) Perhaps it's one of those "had to be there" things?

I thought I hated 80s fusion for the longest time. I don't.

But that's ok. A friend of mine and I were talking music once, and he's a huge Bob Dylan fan. I am not. I've always been a Springsteen fan, he is NOT. Interesting, since Dylan was one of Bruce's biggest influences. My friend summed it up quite well I thought: "hey- you can't like everybody."

You don't have to actually have to like Dylan to respect his authority and individuality as an artist. I find that with a lot of artists actually.

People talk about Stern as if he changed his sound he'd be somehow better. The only thing that would happen is he would be less himself.

[John A.]

Hey Stern fans-

If someone asked you, "where to START" with Stern.... what would you tell them? Keep in mind, your favorite Stern may not be the same answer as "best place to start" with Stern....

Sort of like "if you don't like THIS Stern, then Stern just isn't your guy" lol

I would start with "come to NY, and listen to him live at the 55 Bar." Live in a trio in a small venue is the essence of Mike Stern. It has never really been well captured on record. Even the tone that people here kvetch about is different in that setting. It doesn't sound like exaggerated chorus; it sounds like a big stereo sound (I know, I know, some people still don't like it, even at the 55 Bar...). "Standards (and other songs)" comes closest, though, so that's where I would tell someone to start.

Anyway, one day in 1991, I see Mike Stern on the street, so I say "hey aren't you Mike Stern?" and we start talking. At that point, I'd seen him many times, with Miles, Jaco, in groups with Bob Berg and Dennis Chambers, Steps Ahead, and the 55 Bar. He was very friendly, and we talked about all the different stuff he'd done, and how none of it really reflected what he did with this trios at the 55 Bar. He said that his record deal was basically to write and record stuff that went in that heavy/fusion-y direction, but that left entirely to his own devices it wouldn't be the main thing he did. He then told me about the standards record he was working on, which I bought as soon as I saw it a few months later. Now, even though he no longer has a major-label deal pushing him in the fusion direction stylistically, that's still his bread and butter, and as much as the 55-Bar style is something unique, so is the energy in something like the gigs he does with Dennis Chambers.

John

[ruger9]

Thought you meant Bobby Timmons for a second... OK so the thing that's interesting to me about the whole Brecker Bros/Stern/Berg cohort is they were all bop language players working in fusion music. Sure they played the big 80's pentatonic licks (Brecker was just as influenced by rock guitarists as Stern) but they are so steeped in bop vocabulary it's seems wrong to me to compare them to the more rock oriented fusion players. They are New York guys.

The Stern stuff with Miles is badass - Star People is great.

If you want to listen to Stern the jazz standards guitarist, you are looking at more recent stuff. My favourite playing of his is what I heard at the 55 bar in 2017. Pure bop with electric instruments. Fantastic stuff, and that was the year of his injury.

I just watched 2 interviews of his from that tour. I'm very interested. I'll see what I can find. And it doesn't have to be standards AT ALL- I'm all for taking the music where you want to take it. Stern has certainly done that. I think he just usually takes it "too far" for me. But I like the guy's personality, approach, and perspective so much, I really want to find some of his music I dig. I just haven't yet.

People talk about Stern as if he changed his sound he'd be somehow better. The only thing that would happen is he would be less himself.

I agree with that: with both his TONE and his STYLE, he is instantly recognizable. That's a major achievement for any artist.

[ruger9]

I would start with "come to NY, and listen to him live at the 55 Bar." Live in a trio in a small venue is the essence of Mike Stern. It has never really been well captured on record.

Well that's a shame. As I dig, I'm hearing alot about his 55 Bar stuff. Interestingly, Campilongo used to play there all the time.. still does occasionally. I wonder of the two have run into each other...

"Standards (and other songs)" comes closest, though, so that's where I would tell someone to start.

Thanks for that.

And what you (he) said about his career being "pushed" in a certain direction explains alot, to my ears. I bet I'd dig the 55 Bar trio thing.

[christianm77]

Well that's a shame. As I dig, I'm hearing alot about his 55 Bar stuff. Interestingly, Campilongo used to play there all the time.. still does occasionally. I wonder of the two have run into each other...

It would be strange if they hadn't.

The 55 bar is one of the best places on the planet. Esp after all the tourists go elsewhere and you have the place to yourself, the band, the awesome staff and one or two other die hard jazz obsessives.

[christianm77]

I would start with "come to NY, and listen to him live at the 55 Bar." Live in a trio in a small venue is the essence of Mike Stern. It has never really been well captured on record. Even the tone that people here kvetch about is different in that setting. It doesn't sound like exaggerated chorus; it sounds like a big stereo sound (I know, I know, some people still don't like it, even at the 55 Bar...). "Standards (and other songs)" comes closest, though, so that's where I would tell someone to start.

Anyway, one day in 1991, I see Mike Stern on the street, so I say "hey aren't you Mike Stern?" and we start talking. At that point, I'd seen him many times, with Miles, Jaco, in groups with Bob Berg and Dennis Chambers, Steps Ahead, and the 55 Bar. He was very friendly, and we talked about all the different stuff he'd done, and how none of it really reflected what he did with this trios at the 55 Bar. He said that his record deal was basically to write and record stuff that went in that heavy/fusion-y direction, but that left entirely to his own devices it wouldn't be the main thing he did. He then told me about the standards record he was working on, which I bought as soon as I saw it a few months later. Now, even though he no longer has a major-label deal pushing him in the fusion direction stylistically, that's still his bread and butter, and as much as the 55-Bar style is something unique, so is the energy in something like the gigs he does with Dennis Chambers.

John

It's funny how one gets typecast as a player. Even someone on the stellar level Mike is. Yeah his jazz trio playing knocked me - and the missus - out for its beauty, nuance and lightness of touch. I think he was relearning his technique at that point, not that he sounded constrained, but it added a little softness perhaps, having the pick glued on the way he does now. I never heard him play like that. And sure I love all the rocking out stuff he does. He was also singing a lot with the chord melody stuff he was playing, which sounded gorgeous.

[John A.]

I just watched 2 interviews of his from that tour. I'm very interested. I'll see what I can find. And it doesn't have to be standards AT ALL- I'm all for taking the music where you want to take it. Stern has certainly done that. I think he just usually takes it "too far" for me. But I like the guy's personality, approach, and perspective so much, I really want to find some of his music I dig. I just haven't yet.




I agree with that: with both his TONE and his STYLE, he is instantly recognizable. That's a major achievement for any artist.

The We Want Miles era band with Stern strikes as incontrovertibly a jazz group. I mean check this out:

Listen to the whole thing. Yes it's electric instruments and it blends in rock textures and funk beats, but it swings, it's full of jazz harmonic and melodic "language," and the nature of the interactions between the players is jazz. You can easily hear the connection between the playing here and 1950s and 60s Miles. Someone here once wrote "jazz is not a 'what', it's a 'how'." Think of it that way, and the "what is jazz" mishegas tends to fall away. Also, to the people making this music the fine distinctions in labeling are a whole lot less important than they are to some of the people typing about it on the internet. Bear that in mind.

John

[John A.]

It's funny how one gets typecast as a player. Even someone on the stellar level Mike is. Yeah his jazz trio playing knocked me - and the missus - out for its beauty, nuance and lightness of touch. I think he was relearning his technique at that point, not that he sounded constrained, but it added a little softness perhaps, having the pick glued on the way he does now. I never heard him play like that. And sure I love all the rocking out stuff he does. He was also singing a lot with the chord melody stuff he was playing, which sounded gorgeous.

Calling him typecast might be overstating things a bit. I think this whole conversation of "it's not really jazz" or "great player but that tone ..." is limited to certain mainly online quarters. In the real world, he makes records, he composes, and he performs for an audience that likes his music, and he is esteemed by peers. I mean Peter Bernstein is not going "well, you know, he's not really jazz, and it would sound better if he didn't use so much chorus." Bernstein is just smiling and jamming. I also think maybe in Europe there's more weight given to these labels and categories. At least from what I've experienced in NY, different styles blend and jazz is a really big tent. Basically, if it's instrumental, and it's not classical, it's jazz as far as most people here are concerned. Anyway, enough soapbox. Great player, making great music. If it's not to some's liking, that's life. Listening to We Want Miles now, for the first time in long whole. Great. Friggin'. Record.

John

[ruger9]

The We Want Miles era band with Stern strikes as incontrovertibly a jazz group. I mean check this out:
Yes it's electric instruments and it blends in rock textures and funk beats, but it swings, it's full of jazz harmonic and melodic "language," and the nature of the interactions between the players is jazz. Someone here once wrote "jazz is not a 'what', it's a 'how'." Think of it that way, and the "what is jazz" mishegas tends to fall away. Also, to the people making this music the fine distinctions in labeling are a whole lot less important than they are to some of the people typing about it on the internet. Bear that in mind.

John

With all due respect to jazz (I love jazz), a music isn't required to be jazz to have that kind of interaction between the players; and having that kind of interaction between the players doesn't automatically make it jazz. But yes- that video is jazz, if it's anything lol. Quite avant garde, imo. Was never a fan of that era of Miles.

[ruger9]

Calling him typecast might be overstating things a bit. I think this whole conversation of "it's not really jazz" or "great player but that tone ..." is limited to certain mainly online quarters. In the real world, he makes records, he composes, and he performs for an audience that likes his music, and he is esteemed by peers. I mean Peter Bernstein is not going "well, you know, he's not really jazz, and it would sound better if he didn't use so much chorus." Bernstein is just smiling and jamming. I also think maybe in Europe there's more weight given to these labels and categories. At least from what I've experienced in NY, different styles blend and jazz is a really big tent. Basically, if it's instrumental, and it's not classical, it's jazz as far as most people here are concerned. Anyway, enough soapbox. Great player, making great music. If it's not to some's liking, that's life. Listening to We Want Miles now, for the first time in long whole. Great. Friggin'. Record.

John

I don't care if Mike "is jazz" or not. And that goes for ALL players. I either like something, or I don't (of course with many shades of grey in-between). Would *I* call Mike jazz? IDK... I think I'd just call him "Mike Stern". But then I wouldn't call Frisell jazz either, and Campilongo only skirts those edges, imo.... he's another one who has his own tone, touch, and style- instantly recognizable. He's just "Jim Campilongo". He could be playing something avant garde, a pretty acoustic piece, some sweet melodic chord melody, or a hillbilly jazz piece.

I mean, really- even jazz players "play a blues". What that means to them may not be the same thing it means to BB King, but who cares? SRV's Riviera Paradise is much more Kenny Burrell than it is Albert King... is it jazz? Is it blues? Just because he's a blues rock GUY doesn't mean that piece doesn't qualify as jazz. How about Buchanan's "Soliloquy"? And he's another one: jazz player? Blues player? Or just ROY BUCHANAN?

[grahambop]

I’m not a massive fusion fan (I do like some stuff e.g. Bitches Brew though), but I really like the way Miles re-did ‘My Man’s Gone Now’. Stern has a solo on this.

[christianm77]

I don't care if Mike "is jazz" or not. And that goes for ALL players. I either like something, or I don't (of course with many shades of grey in-between). Would *I* call Mike jazz? IDK... I think I'd just call him "Mike Stern". But then I wouldn't call Frisell jazz either, and Campilongo only skirts those edges, imo.... he's another one who has his own tone, touch, and style- instantly recognizable. He's just "Jim Campilongo". He could be playing something avant garde, a pretty acoustic piece, some sweet melodic chord melody, or a hillbilly jazz piece.

I mean, really- even jazz players "play a blues". What that means to them may not be the same thing it means to BB King, but who cares? SRV's Riviera Paradise is much more Kenny Burrell than it is Albert King... is it jazz? Is it blues? Just because he's a blues rock GUY doesn't mean that piece doesn't qualify as jazz. How about Buchanan's "Soliloquy"? And he's another one: jazz player? Blues player? Or just ROY BUCHANAN?

Hmm. It’s almost like great musicians don’t give a shit.

[ruger9]

Hmm. It’s almost like great musicians don’t give a shit.

They don't. And I'm no great musician, but I don't either

[grahambop]

I don’t know much of Mike Stern’s output, in fact my main exposure to him was on those Miles records in the 80s. But as soon as I heard him, I thought he must come from a jazz background, because in amongst the rock licks, he kept playing really hip flowing bebop lines. Really that was what stood out about his playing to me. You didn’t hear Scofield playing lines like that.

[ruger9]

I don’t know much of Mike Stern’s output, in fact my main exposure to him was on those Miles records in the 80s. But as soon as I heard him, I thought he must come from a jazz background, because in amongst the rock licks, he kept playing really hip flowing bebop lines. Really that was what stood out about his playing to me. You didn’t hear Scofield playing lines like that.

Actually, Mike has said he was a blues and rock guy. Exposed to jazz at an early age (his mom's records). He became interested in playing jazz by 17 years old, said he had a hard time at first and "had to study"... don't really know how long he was a "blues and rock guy" before making the decision that jazz was his final direction.

[John A.]

I don't care if Mike "is jazz" or not. And that goes for ALL players. I either like something, or I don't (of course with many shades of grey in-between). Would *I* call Mike jazz? IDK... I think I'd just call him "Mike Stern". But then I wouldn't call Frisell jazz either, and Campilongo only skirts those edges, imo.... he's another one who has his own tone, touch, and style- instantly recognizable. He's just "Jim Campilongo". He could be playing something avant garde, a pretty acoustic piece, some sweet melodic chord melody, or a hillbilly jazz piece.

I mean, really- even jazz players "play a blues". What that means to them may not be the same thing it means to BB King, but who cares? SRV's Riviera Paradise is much more Kenny Burrell than it is Albert King... is it jazz? Is it blues? Just because he's a blues rock GUY doesn't mean that piece doesn't qualify as jazz. How about Buchanan's "Soliloquy"? And he's another one: jazz player? Blues player? Or just ROY BUCHANAN?

Labels are not a value judgement and I don't care about them. They are a way to describe music and give people a frame of reference for what something sounds like when talking about music. But some labels are more clearly defined and agreed upon than others. And to the extent that they apply to people (as opposed to music), that really depends on the degree to which people stick to music that fits the label I think jazz is a good description of Stern, somewhat less good for Frisell because he's more eclectic, but still pretty good; not a good description of either Buchannan or Campilongo overall, even though they may do some music that sounds as much like jazz as anything else.

John

[cosmic gumbo]