Mike Stern Rig Rundown

**ruger9** · 05-23-2018, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Taking away the fact that Mike has a weird squelchy tone, and stripping away the obvious blues rock stuff and so on, what is it about Mikes playing that makes it not jazz to you?
.

But then it's not Mike Stern. ALL that is what = Mike Stern. (I don't think his tone is "squelchy", it just sounds like processed 80s studio chorus on steroids. But hey- if that's what HE digs, that's all that matters.)

Originally Posted by christianm77

Or don’t, and maybe we leave it at that - can we agree that he’s a highly jazz influenced guitarist who plays both jazz and fusion in so much as those labels mean anything?

I think that's perfect.

**christianm77** · 05-23-2018, 07:16 PM

I think it sounds super squelchy and I will punch the man who says otherwise

**christianm77** · 05-23-2018, 07:23 PM

Although I daresay you also think August is the wrong colour.

**joe2758** · 05-23-2018, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

I think it sounds super squelchy and I will punch the man who says otherwise

To my ears it's more yanny. Not squelchy at all.

**christianm77** · 05-23-2018, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by joe2758

to my ears it's more yanny. Not squelchy at all.

war

**christianm77** · 06-02-2018, 04:48 PM

**ruger9** · 06-03-2018, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

That was pretty cool.

I'd like to hear (from Mike) how he arrived at his tone; that "no-pick-attack-with-heavy-chrous" thing. It's very unusual/unique.

**christianm77** · 06-03-2018, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by ruger9

That was pretty cool.

I'd like to hear (from Mike) how he arrived at his tone; that "no-pick-attack-with-heavy-chrous" thing. It's very unusual/unique.

Did you watch the OP video? He said it was to make his guitar sound more like an archtop.

I know, me neither.

**rio** · 06-03-2018, 01:11 PM

That’s a great clip. I wish they played the whole song - sucks when there are bass or drum solos and someone cuts them out. The contrast between the processed sound of Mike Stern and the clean, dry sound of Peter Bernstein was a little much for me at first but by the time the solos happened I appreciated the difference. I think it was mainly going back and forth in the head that it seemed too different, to me at least. Some really great playing though. It is interesting looking back on why these guys (Metheny, Scofield, Stern etc.) chose these sounds since they were novel at the time and very different from the norm. I didn’t know that he chose that to sound more like an archtop - I have to wonder if that explanation is tongue in cheek.

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**Boston Joe** · 06-03-2018, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Dylan Martin

I am a new member and don`t really post here BUT for the sake of humanity I hope I never hear Yngwie Malmsteen in the context of Mike Stern again.

Honestly, you could replace Yngwie with any other metal shredder, and I'd have said the same. I don't know anything about Yngwie's personality, so I was speaking strictly to the music. I know Mike is a nice guy because I've met him. I also know that fame can do weird things to people.

But if the Yngwie comparison bothers you, swap in Petrucci or Zakk Wilde or whomever.

**christianm77** · 06-03-2018, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by rio

That’s a great clip. I wish they played the whole song - sucks when there are bass or drum solos and someone cuts them out. The contrast between the processed sound of Mike Stern and the clean, dry sound of Peter Bernstein was a little much for me at first but by the time the solos happened I appreciated the difference. I think it was mainly going back and forth in the head that it seemed too different, to me at least. Some really great playing though. It is interesting looking back on why these guys (Metheny, Scofield, Stern etc.) chose these sounds since they were novel at the time and very different from the norm. I didn’t know that he chose that to sound more like an archtop - I have to wonder if that explanation is tongue in cheek.

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It would be a very good joke wouldn't it?

I really think that the 'Marmite' aspect of players is so important. It's the thing that makes them stand out...

**Strbender** · 06-03-2018, 02:12 PM

At one time I had the same teacher as Mike, (Charlie Banacos). I asked Charlie several times about how he would categorize Mikes playing style. He always said "Mike is a Bad Cat, a Monster, He can play whatever he hears", but it's not always Jazz. I think Mike plays Jazz Fusion with Rock/Blues overtones. He can certainly blow over changes. I think it's an age thing too. I'm 60 and didn't start listening to Jazz until around 1978 when Al Dimeola started to get airplay on rock stations. I played trumpet/piano in grade school then switched to guitar in high school like a lot of others when Hendrix, Clapton, and Page came along. It's kind of funny. Schofield and Rosenwinkel, use pedals, while Metheny has big hair an guitar synths, but there always considered to be jazz guitarist. When Mike was getting started in jazz, he was roommates with Jaco Pastorius. He said they spent 10 hours a day studying tunes from the Real Book.

**christianm77** · 06-03-2018, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Strbender

At one time I had the same teacher as Mike, (Charlie Banacos). I asked Charlie several times about how he would categorize Mikes playing style. He always said "Mike is a Bad Cat, a Monster, He can play whatever he hears", but it's not always Jazz. I think Mike plays Jazz Fusion with Rock/Blues overtones. He can certainly blow over changes. I think it's an age thing too. I'm 60 and didn't start listening to Jazz until around 1978 when Al Dimeola started to get airplay on rock stations. I played trumpet/piano in grade school then switched to guitar in high school like a lot of others when Hendrix, Clapton, and Page came along. It's kind of funny. Schofield and Rosenwinkel, use pedals, while Metheny has big hair an guitar synths, but there always considered to be jazz guitarist. When Mike was getting started in jazz, he was roommates with Jaco Pastorius. He said they spent 10 hours a day studying tunes from the Real Book.

Yeah, Mike can play the crap out of standards and swings hard, more so IMO than some archtop players I could, but won't, mention.

If that isn't enough to qualify him as a jazz guitarist, other's criteria must be different to mine.

Anyway, I'd love to hear more about Banacos if you have the time.

**ruger9** · 06-03-2018, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Did you watch the OP video? He said it was to make his guitar sound more like an archtop.

I know, me neither.

Interesting, since it sounds NOTHING like an archtop.

**blille** · 07-13-2018, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Dave24309

Interesting that he says he uses a 10-38 set of strings and puts an 11 on top. He makes it sound like a 10-38 set is common (old Fender mediums?)....NOT. Curt Mangan makes a set - could that be what he uses?

I do think 10-38 was common, the old Fender 150 set popularized by Hendrix, Allman and Clapton IIRC. EVH had 9-40. Just not in Jazz.

**Cunamara** · 07-14-2018, 12:10 PM

All jazz is a fusion of elements and influences. The genius of jazz is that it can do that so readily.

**Doug B** · 07-14-2018, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Joe

I met him a few years ago after one of his gigs. He was just hanging out at the merch table taking to people as we filed out. He was super cool and friendly. Definitely a guy you could hang with and talk about just about anything.

First time I heard Mike was when Miles played here just after his Man With a Horn album was released. Mike must be an alright guy if he can surivive Miles! Lol!!!

**Doug B** · 10-20-2019, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

A discussion easily and empirically solved by saying - go transcribe some Mike Stern.

His music might be ‘not jazz’ to some, but you’d have to be crazy or deaf to say there’s no jazz in it.

Stern probably plays more bop vocabulary than some contemporary acoustic jazz players.

Agreed. I laugh when the jazz snobs come out and say Stern is 'not jazz'.

He was good enough for Miles to think that he WAS jazz; and you can't get much deeper pedigree than Miles.

**ruger9** · 10-21-2019, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by Doug B

Agreed. I laugh when the jazz snobs come out and say Stern is 'not jazz'.

He was good enough for Miles to think that he WAS jazz; and you can't get much deeper pedigree than Miles.

Yeah, but... was Miles even playing "jazz" at that point? Alot of people say not really... (nothing against Stern) That wasn't Miles' best period.

**Greentone** · 10-21-2019, 07:10 AM

From earlier in the thread: Stern uses .10-.38 gauge strings with an .11 replacement. You need to be careful on Fenders with that old Fender gauge. The pickup magnets will actually pull the bass notes out of tune, if you don't lower the pickups.

**blille** · 10-21-2019, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Doug B

Agreed. I laugh when the jazz snobs come out and say Stern is 'not jazz'.

He was good enough for Miles to think that he WAS jazz; and you can't get much deeper pedigree than Miles.

Agreed. I wonder if there are any in this forum.

Originally Posted by ruger9

Yeah, but... was Miles even playing "jazz" at that point? A lot of people say not really... (nothing against Stern) That wasn't Miles' best period.

Yes he was.

Are you among those people? If not there’s no need to discuss it

Whether or not it wasn’t his best period doesn’t mean that he wasn’t playing jazz.

Originally Posted by Greentone

From earlier in the thread: Stern uses .10-.38 gauge strings with an .11 replacement. You need to be careful on Fenders with that old Fender gauge. The pickup magnets will actually pull the bass notes out of tune, if you don't lower the pickups.

Because the tension is much lower?

**ronjazz** · 10-21-2019, 11:43 AM

Dixieland is jazz, fusion is jazz, Mike Stern is jazz. His recordings are categorized as jazz, he plays with jazz musicians, he plays jazz tunes. Even when he hits the overdrive pedal and bends a note a third, he generally comes off that bend with a phrase that only a jazz player could pull off. He plays modern jazz, which now has all kinds of world music influences included. Miles Davis never played anything but jazz, ever. He just was smart enough to realize, more than once, that jazz is expandable, a living art form, not museum music.

**ruger9** · 10-21-2019, 12:34 PM

Yeah, anything can be jazz, really. Here's a good example

It's on the avant garde side, but

**blille** · 10-21-2019, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by ruger9

Yeah, anything can be jazz, really. Here's a good example

It's on the avant garde side, but

Not bad, somewhere in between Frisell and Lage. To me here is the canonical definition of Jazz. Wise men.

**jads57** · 10-21-2019, 06:29 PM

The good thing is Mike Stern has an identifiable guitar style. The bad is its very cold sounding and void of warmth associated with say even John Scofield.
I think Mike is a great player for sure,but cares little for his overall tone.

And while this can be said of many Jazz players, it really gets in the way for me as a listener. I also feel he tends to play the same solo as far as telling a story.
I think if he got rid of the digital delay and chorus it would be to his advantage.
But it sure has not hurt his career,nor keep people from hiring him as a sideman.