Guitar > X > Powered speaker

[John A.]

I can think of a couple of reason mfr's don't include XLR connectors on devices. 1. Some devices are potentially damaged by phantom power, and by not having an XLR connector they avoid the risk of that happening (probably not all that common, but in a risk-averse/litigious world ...). 2. They recognize that both uses-cases exist, but for reasons of cost and/or form-factor only can include one in the device and think the 1/4" use-case is more common/desired (e.g., because they expect the device to be used more commonly in front of an amp or with consumer-level audio interface) and/or having only an XLR would preclude the 14" use cases.

[Christian Miller]

I can think of a couple of reason mfr's don't include XLR connectors on devices. 1. Some devices are potentially damaged by phantom power, and by not having an XLR connector they avoid the risk of that happening (probably not all that common, but in a risk-averse/litigious world ...). 2. They recognize that both uses-cases exist, but for reasons of cost and/or form-factor only can include one in the device and think the 1/4" use-case is more common/desired (e.g., because they expect the device to be used more commonly in front of an amp or with consumer-level audio interface) and/or having only an XLR would preclude the 14" use cases.

I interpreted mf’ers in a way you didn’t intend.

I don’t care. The Chinese cheapo units have them. Modern amps have them. I could perhaps see why Boss don’t include them on products probably meant mostly for bedroom players, but I cannot fathom why premium units don’t. It’s annoying.


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[John A.]

I interpreted mf’ers in a way you didn’t intend.

I don’t care. The Chinese cheapo units have them. Modern amps have them. I could perhaps see why Boss don’t include them on products probably meant mostly for bedroom players, but I cannot fathom why premium units don’t. It’s annoying.


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It's annoying to you, but clearly not to enough other customers to affect the product designs. I'm not trying to convince you not to be annoyed. I'm just offering possibilities for why the decision is not as clueless as you think it is.

[Christian Miller]

It's annoying to you, but clearly not to enough other customers to affect the product designs. I'm not trying to convince you not to be annoyed. I'm just offering possibilities for why the decision is not as clueless as you think it is.

Why? Are they your mates?

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[Christian Miller]

TBH my working model is that the biggest market for expensive new guitar gear is people that do one gig a year and mostly collect stuff.

And another thing - the phase when the manufactures were like "no, we won't have a reverb on this new pedal amp, we'll have an 'ambience' knob instead. You can use a third party reverb pedal." Or maybe a 'sag' or 'response' knob or some such (I don't know what those do, I'll admit.) What is wrong with these people???

OK, people who buy Strymons probably have them all lined up in a row for their megachurch gig, so fair enough. Why add reverb when your customer probably already has the Big Sky? Fine. But everyone was doing this for a while.

Meanwhile I'm thinking 'why are you making bring another pedal to make your super portable amp usable?' (I mean it taught me to play dry, I suppose, but I'm not a total puritan, just a squizz of spring? A speck of plate? Surely?)

Maybe they expect you to have a pedalboard setup with the pedal board amp that doesn't take pedals.

Thank god for Quilter.

Bassists OTOH have gigs. It's no surprise that all the innovations in technology seem to adopted by Bassists first. Class D amp technology is an obvious one.

[John A.]

Why? Are they your mates?

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Why? Apparently because I have an incurable compulsion to try to have constructive conversations with nudniks.

[Christian Miller]

Why? Apparently because I have an incurable compulsion to try to have constructive conversations with nudniks.

I wouldn't bother trying to do that. This is JGO. Do I sound like a reasonable man?

[Christian Miller]

Although, despite this earnest and apparently unremunerated defence of Big Gear, I have yet to see a compelling argument for why they can't simply STICK A FLIPPING XLR on it, like they would for basically any other piece of gear.

I think it should be mandated by law.

[John A.]

Constructive? Give me a break. Do I look like a reasonable man?

Deceptively so.

[Christian Miller]

Deceptively so.

Is Late Capitalism/Neoliberalism to blame?

I'm told they are usually to blame.

[John A.]

As long as we're being demanding and regulatory, I would say that controls with red/amber/green indicator lights instead of actual visible printed settings and knobs pointing to them are grounds for imprisonment, as are setting indicators that are merely embossed in plastic rather than painted on in black-on-white or white-on-black. As a colorblind, over 40 person I should also be legally auhorized to commit acts of violence against the designers of such abominations.

[Christian Miller]

Deceptively so.

I might also add that I do not live in a reasonable world inhabited by reasonable and competent people. Instead, I am a professional musician.

So - here is specifically why I am hung up on balanced line-level XLR DI outs.

I one did a gig at a pretty good music venue and the person doing sound decided that the way to put my old school Princeton Reverb amp through the PA was to unplug the speaker while the amp was switched on, and plug the power amp into the desk.

It was fortunate that I was in the room at the time he was trying this.

Give the sound guy an XLR DI for God's sake. There are professional guitarists do not understand the difference between between a speaker cable and an instrument cable - it follows that you can't expect whoever is unlucky enough to inherit the mantle 'sound engineer' on that particular evening to understand guitar stuff. It might actually be a matter of life and limb.

[Christian Miller]

That said , on the flip side, another time at a different venue, I had to explain to the house sound engineer that the house amp - a Tonemaster Twin - actually had a really good built in XLR DI at the back and he didn't have to use a ABY and a DI box to take a direct signal out of my pedal board. (Which I'm sure would have sounded wonderful.)

I'd much rather it was that though. Good grief.

I think the best policy is to make it as simple as possible for them. It's just easier. Helps you get a consistent sound, give them something that they understand. You know, you might have a really good sound engineer and it's still a tough situation - small stage, or rapid setup in a festival or something with just a few minutes to do a line check. We don't live in the era of the tube amp any more (unless it's a Peavey classic - underrated amp and has a cab simulated bloody XLR DI) - and it's actually the modelling revolution that has in part driven this expectation of guitarists being able to plug straight in.

And I think these sorts of issues are apparent to anyone who plays gigs. It's not like I'm doing 200 shows a year these days and it still comes up.

[John A.]

That said , on the flip side, another time at a different venue, I had to explain to the house sound engineer that the house amp - a Tonemaster Twin - actually had a really good built in XLR DI at the back and he didn't have to use a ABY and a DI box to take a direct signal out of my pedal board. (Which I'm sure would have sounded wonderful.)

I'd much rather it was that though. Good grief.

I think the best policy is to make it as simple as possible for them. It's just easier. Helps you get a consistent sound, give them something that they understand. You know, you might have a really good sound engineer and it's still a tough situation - small stage, or rapid setup in a festival or something with just a few minutes to do a line check. We don't live in the era of the tube amp any more (unless it's a Peavey classic - underrated amp and has a cab simulated bloody XLR DI) - and it's actually the modelling revolution that has in part driven this expectation of guitarists being able to plug straight in.

And I think these sorts of issues are apparent to anyone who plays gigs. It's not like I'm doing 200 shows a year these days and it still comes up.

I play gigs. These issues do not come up for me, but I play small venues where only the vocal and/or electronic keys and/or quieter acoustic instruments are going through the PA. But even in the circumstances where my electric guitar is going into a mixer, I don't recall ever experiencing lack of an XLR out as a source of any sort of friction or problem. Clearly, YMMV.

[John A.]

I might also add that I do not live in a reasonable world inhabited by reasonable and competent people. Instead, I am a professional musician.

The world is not a reasonable place.

So - here is specifically why I am hung up on balanced line-level XLR DI outs.

I one did a gig at a pretty good music venue and the person doing sound decided that the way to put my old school Princeton Reverb amp through the PA was to unplug the speaker while the amp was switched on, and plug the power amp into the desk.

It was fortunate that I was in the room at the time he was trying this.


Give the sound guy an XLR DI for God's sake. There are professional guitarists do not understand the difference between between a speaker cable and an instrument cable - it follows that you can't expect whoever is unlucky enough to inherit the mantle 'sound engineer' on that particular evening to understand guitar stuff. It might actually be a matter of life and limb.

I doubt that connector type or clear labeling of such would have made a difference to that particular imbecile.

[rpjazzguitar]

I once had a pro sound engineer - major act guy - try to un-crud an on-off switch on my JC55, by rapidly hitting it repeatedly, on-off, on-off etc, without unplugging the amp.

The amp survived.

I'd be happy if my Joyo American (which has made it into my signal chain, at least for now) had an XLR out. But at this price, I'm not that surprised. And, it sounds okay with the cable lengths I'm using.

Output impedance is 1k ohms. I don't understand the electronics well enough to know if you can just connect an XLR jack to that or if it would require some more electronics. As a practical matter, when I play in a situation in which I have to go through the venue's PA, I bring the LJ, which has an XLR out and gives me a monitor and some EQ options without having to find the mixer, usually in the dark.

As for why manufacturers don't put XLR into devices that could use one, that may reflect an understanding of who buys their products and why.

[John A.]

Is Late Capitalism/Neoliberalism to blame?

I'm told they are usually to blame.

To blame for deceptively appearing reasonable? You're English, right?

[Christian Miller]

I play gigs. These issues do not come up for me, but I play small venues where only the vocal and/or electronic keys and/or quieter acoustic instruments are going through the PA. But even in the circumstances where my electric guitar is going into a mixer, I don't recall ever experiencing lack of an XLR out as a source of any sort of friction or problem. Clearly, YMMV.

Yeah touring is a total mixed bag for example, festivals, theatre shows, jazz clubs…. I would say continental Europe is markedly better.

I wouldn’t be saying this is an issue if I didn’t think it was an issue.


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[Christian Miller]

I once had a pro sound engineer - major act guy - try to un-crud an on-off switch on my JC55, by rapidly hitting it repeatedly, on-off, on-off etc, without unplugging the amp.

The amp survived.

I'd be happy if my Joyo American (which has made it into my signal chain, at least for now) had an XLR out. But at this price, I'm not that surprised. And, it sounds okay with the cable lengths I'm using.

I've killed two Joyo Americans over the years. TBF I am a walking disaster. A shame - very good sounding unit. I used to put it into my AER.

Output impedance is 1k ohms. I don't understand the electronics well enough to know if you can just connect an XLR jack to that or if it would require some more electronics. As a practical matter, when I play in a situation in which I have to go through the venue's PA, I bring the LJ, which has an XLR out and gives me a monitor and some EQ options without having to find the mixer, usually in the dark.

Little Jazz is a beast of an amp. I love those things. Best budget solution. I think you are being kind. If they can put XLR's on £60 budget modellers on Amazons and Little Jazz and Quilter Superblock Amps, I think this is product design choice.

Don't talk to me about trying to adjust your tone in the dark.

As for why manufacturers don't put XLR into devices that could use one, that may reflect an understanding of who buys their products and why.

A cynic might say they are trying to get you to buy the expensive gear.

Boss probably want me to buy the GT-1000. But I'm not sure I want a hefty unit with a squillion bells and whistles, and if I was, I think there's better options.

[John A.]

I wouldn’t be saying this is an issue if I didn’t think it was an issue.

This implies reasonableness, which has already been dismissed. Fool me once ...

[Christian Miller]

This implies reasonableness, which has already been dismissed. Fool me once ...

Gosh darn it.

[Hep To The Jive]

I play gigs. These issues do not come up for me, but I play small venues where only the vocal and/or electronic keys and/or quieter acoustic instruments are going through the PA. But even in the circumstances where my electric guitar is going into a mixer, I don't recall ever experiencing lack of an XLR out as a source of any sort of friction or problem. Clearly, YMMV.

Ok, you live in your little comforatbale American world, but there is a bigger world out there. If people say they need XLR, they do mean it. I'm one of these people, I understand. Travel a bit, and you will understand too.

In my example, welcome to China, the dumb and dumber land when it comes to sound. Stories, like sound guys ask where do you want to put a microphone for your electric guitar(I mean the guitar, not amp), are said to be true. I didn't experience that extreme, but yea, you got the picture. Having a unit that covers all possible situations and fool proof is really important.

You never know what mixing boards they have, what knowledge someone who runs them have...XLR saves! I hope I didn't come across as mean, but if gigging pros say they need something, there is really a reason for that lol.

[Cunamara]

I have two DIs on my pedalboard on a A/B switch, mainly for different sounds (jazzy clean on the Tech 21 SansAmp Para Driver DI, Fender Princeton-y semi-clean/bit of bluesy gain on the TC Electronics Combo Deluxe '65). With my current band, I don't take an amp to the gig or rehearsals and just go straight to the PA. Works dandy.

The Sansamp, has both 1/4" and XLR outs. In both cases, the output signal is switchable between instrument and ground. The XLR output will take 48 V phantom power but I use 9v wall power. It's got a good clean tone that's on the Polytone spectrum, very usable EQ including semi-parametric mids and, if you want, you can dial up mild to full-on dirt. No reverb or IR but I think there is a basic speaker emulation on the XLR; not sure about that but the clean tone is very usable for jazz. For what Christian is talking about, I think this would probably be a great solution. Small, cheapish, lightweight and reliable- and you've got enough output/voltage options to keep damn near any sound person happy. A straightahead jazz player could tour the world with that thing, a cord and a guitar, just going straight to the PA and skipping an amp entirely. For pedal users it'd be the last pedal in the chain.

The CD '65 has a 1/4" instrument level output and a 1/4" DI output (I think it's TS not TRS). I carry an adapter for XLR in case that's required for the desk. Have to make sure they don't put 48v on it, though. For jazz tone I prefer the Sansamp most of the time, but the CD '65 can deliver a nice blues tone and has reverb. It's hard/maybe impossible to get it dark enough for a clean jazz tone though- at least for the tones I like. But for my current band which is mostly R&Bish/bluesy/jazz-adjacent pop/light jazz (e.g., Gregory Porter, George Benson, Bill Withers, Billy Joel, some bossa, a Dead tune or two, an Allmans song; no bebop) it provides a nice palette.

[Christian Miller]

I have two DIs on my pedalboard on a A/B switch, mainly for different sounds (jazzy clean on the Tech 21 SansAmp Para Driver DI, Fender Princeton-y semi-clean/bit of bluesy gain on the TC Electronics Combo Deluxe '65). With my current band, I don't take an amp to the gig or rehearsals and just go straight to the PA. Works dandy.

The Sansamp, has both 1/4" and XLR outs. In both cases, the output signal is switchable between instrument and ground. The XLR output will take 48 V phantom power but I use 9v wall power. It's got a good clean tone that's on the Polytone spectrum, very usable EQ including semi-parametric mids and, if you want, you can dial up mild to full-on dirt. No reverb or IR but I think there is a basic speaker emulation on the XLR; not sure about that but the clean tone is very usable for jazz. For what Christian is talking about, I think this would probably be a great solution. Small, cheapish, lightweight and reliable- and you've got enough output/voltage options to keep damn near any sound person happy. A straightahead jazz player could tour the world with that thing, a cord and a guitar, just going straight to the PA and skipping an amp entirely. For pedal users it'd be the last pedal in the chain.

The CD '65 has a 1/4" instrument level output and a 1/4" DI output (I think it's TS not TRS). I carry an adapter for XLR in case that's required for the desk. Have to make sure they don't put 48v on it, though. For jazz tone I prefer the Sansamp most of the time, but the CD '65 can deliver a nice blues tone and has reverb. It's hard/maybe impossible to get it dark enough for a clean jazz tone though- at least for the tones I like. But for my current band which is mostly R&Bish/bluesy/jazz-adjacent pop/light jazz (e.g., Gregory Porter, George Benson, Bill Withers, Billy Joel, some bossa, a Dead tune or two, an Allmans song; no bebop) it provides a nice palette.

Yeah I think my only question mark about both units is that AFAIK they don’t take dirt pedals very well. As I have a dirt pedal I really like and that I feel is ‘my sound’ that’s a shame - but I can probably dial in something using other gear. NB TC electronic doesn’t have an XLR output, put the Paradriver does. Good ole SansAmp.

I think for someone playing clean or using light amp drive, you’ve got solid options right there. Again, I am very happy with Quillter’s clean sounds.

I do like the idea of a physical pedal board solution with physical knobs I can see, as opposed to something I have to dial in using screens or even a computer software.

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[Christian Miller]

Humboldt simplifier

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