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It's one extra thing to schlep when you're on foot, which I usually am when I'm doing things in town.
Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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07-23-2025 06:18 PM
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Wild card here is being able to do both vocals and guitar through the same PA system. If it was simply a matter of guitar sound, I'd suggest getting a Toob Metro BG+ and suitable head. I am still really liking the DV Mark EG250 and getting lots of compliments on my sound with it. But it's only one channel and it's very clearly a guitar amp. I really like using it in the vertical position a la the Ampeg Fountain of Sound amp. It reduces the point source effect that I would love to get rid of; I want to be surrounded by the sound, not have it coming from somewhere over there behind me. I have been very interested in your trials of the Bose S1 with its possibility of doing exactly that.
Do you like the Polytone sound or do you need to have more variety available than that? I am thinking about one of jazzmus's Polytone-in-a-pedal situations between your guitar and the S1.
I have had pretty good results with a SansAmp Para Driver DI into FRFR speakers, especially a QSC 8 inch that I had the opportunity to use multiple of times. That sounded a little warmer and rounder than my Alto 10 inch FRFR speaker; the Alto sounds better on gigs than it does in my living room and the wider angle of dispersion compared to a typical guitar amp was helpful. I also had good results going directly from the SansAmp directly into the PA at one gig using the XLR and phantom power.
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It was the idea of using one unit for both vocals and guitar that got me started on this adventure.
Reportedly, the Henriksen Bud can do it. I thought, if one amp can sound good for both, why not a powered speaker? One answer was that a guitar speaker throws off overtones like magic pixie dust... well, I exaggerate. But, it does seem to be true that FRFR accurate may not be best for guitar -- in which case I can't explain the Bud.
I have only played through Polytones a couple of times and I was unimpressed. It may be that I didn't have a chance to dial them in, or something. My four tones (can be heard in the Showcase section of this forum) are clean, a little wet (harmonizer on zero), more wet, and octave-down added in. All with some reverb. For me it's all about thickness -- I don't like a thin tone when I play -- even though it can sound good when others play.
The Bose S1 is pretty bass-y sounding. And, it's not that easy to dial it out. So far, I haven't gotten an adequately repeatable approach. Not sure why and I'm still working on it.
I probably need EQ (enough bands) and cabinet modeling. If the Bose had enough EQ options I think it would work well without an amp model.
The ME70 alleges to have a cabinet model (one that sounds a lot like an absence of cabinet modeling, apparently) and it has 4 band EQ, voiced well enough. There are amp models, but none of them sound good, which I felt was true of the ME80 and ME90 also.
I think the Bose S1 has three tweeters. One facing forward and two angled. When I heard the S1 used for vocals by another band at an outdoor gig, it sounded great, covering maybe 100 people. One S1 on a pole. I have the impression that the dispersion characteristic is like a line array system, but I might be buying the hype. I don't really know.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Given your need for multiple sounds, the Line 6 HX stomp should work well as your "X". You could use a feature called "snapshots" to switch between your sounds. It does everything you need (amp modelling, effects, boss octaver emulation, speaker emulation, reverbs, sophisticated EQ) and a world more (delays, soft synths, pitch drop) . I have used one both for regular gigs and jam nights, it works really well for me and the sound quality is superb through a decent PA. It's about the best bit of guitar kit I've ever bought.
I would also quite happily do my jazz gigs with just a Tonex one into my FRFR cab (a glorified pa speaker), but my tone is very "old fashioned" and I only use one sound +- a bit of tremolo. Despite this, in retrospect I wish I had bought the full fat Tonex, as the switching options, preset banks and midi options make it much more flexible than its smaller stablemate.
I found it took a lot of (very enjoyable) tinkering to make these devices work as I want them to, which seems to be very typical. They are not set up for jazz players and the presets are often pretty horrible. Once you've found your sounds it's gloriously straightforward.
A more simple solution might be a UA (Universal Audio) pedal like the dream 65. I've never tried one but they get rave reviews. Not cheap and very much a one trick pony. Probably wouldn't fit your need for four sounds without more pedals.
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Many units nowadays are true stereo so they can do guitar and vocals. But if you amplify them through one speaker only, the speaker will be the problem, cause it doesn't know which way to move when it's receiving multiple signals. So you get some weird compression when the volume gets loud. Simplest solution for clean jazz is to just use a two channel small amp like an Aer or a Henriksen Bud.
My favorite effect has been the HX Stomp, basically because of how practical it is. You have a full, small and ultra portable amp and effects rig in your gig bag.
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This thread interested me so I watched a bunch of YT videos on it. There's a setting that allows you to make the S1 think there's a subwoofer attached and it will send the lows to sub. The video I watched had a guitarist doing just that and it removed the bassy-ness. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Here is the video I was referring to:Last edited by Freddels; 07-24-2025 at 07:54 AM. Reason: Add yt link
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On one trick ponies: I have found over time that I've transitioned from blackface Fender models to tweed sounds for most guitars. Originally Posted by TomS
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I noticed on the Joyo website they claim that the Joyo American does full Fender 57 Deluxe amp and cab sim: Originally Posted by Spook410
"Reproduces the sound of a Fender 57 Deluxe amp"
"it has inbuilt cabinet emulation meaning you can go from the pedal directly to a mixing desk"
Amplifier & Cab Simulation : JOYO Jf-14 American Sound ...
However, I tend to give more weight to your experience that it lacks something. It's also good to know that Joyo has a cab modeler that makes it sound better. Thanks for the tip.
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It doesn’t “do” cab sim. It’s just an analogue preamp stage with variable gain. The circuit values are chosen to get breakup at higher signal levels that (from their description)“introduce[s] the right kind of overdrive, just like an alnico 12-inch speaker pushed to the limits, adding more natural distortion to an already saturated tube”. It’s not true digital emulation or modeling - it’s just an analogue approximation. Originally Posted by strumcat
Apart from input & output impedances, I’ve never been able to find any hard specs for it, eg output voltage. So I don’t know if it will drive a power amp directly. But it’s not a modeler and it’s not a true simulator. It just sounds a lot like a Tweed Deluxe at certain settings of its pots. It sounds great, especially for the price. But it’s not a Tonemaster Tweed Deluxe pedal.
From the website and the manual, “it can simulate many kind [sic] of amplifier” by adjusting the pot labeled “drive”.
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I picked up the Joyo American after following this thread and I quite like it. I use it in front of my 2009 vintage Henriksen Jazz Amp. In the past few years my taste in tones has changed opting for a clearer, thinner you might say, tone, especially when playing with others. My Quilter MicroPro Mach 2 8 opened my ears to this. This pedal has a Fender type tone about it and the EOB, to me, is musical. Anyway, it cleaned up the muddiness of my Henriksen, I hear more string detail.
YMMV
Tom
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The Joyo seems to be able to drive a power amp. I've plugged it directly into the effects return of my Clarus, and it's pretty loud there. Plugging a passive pickup (a guitar equipped with a magnetic pickup) gives no sound at any volume setting, but the Joyo works. AFAICT on the Clarus the effects loop return bypasses the preamp and goes directly into the power section. I've never been that enamored of the Joyo, but it's sometimes useful, depending on the amp and the guitar. The voice control can require some tweaking to find the right sound.
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The website does say it includes cabinet emulation. Not sure what they mean. It's an analogue pedal and there's no circuitry that could run a speaker IR and there are no controls other than preamp sorts of things. So possibly some of the filtering is supposed to be speaker-ish? That and when I set up a low pass after the pedal I seem to be filtering out frequencies above 5Khz which a speaker emulation should have already disposed of. So.. short of a JOYO disclosure on the function or access to a spectrum analyzer, I don't get it. I wonder how many players never try putting a power amp emulator and speaker IR after this pedal which, IMHO, is the best use for it. Originally Posted by strumcat
Side note: They also say it can be set to sound like any amp. If they mean it can be set to be more tweed, I think that's more or less true. The three band EQ is more effective than you would think and the drive setting works in cryptic ways.
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Update on the Powered Speaker experiment.
I got a JBL Eon One Compact. Smallish powered speaker with built in mixer with extremely flexible EQ.
I was satisfied with the sound. Used it on some restaurant gigs and with big band and it worked ok.
I just played a gig where I had both the LJ and the JBL right behind me, backing up a singer on standards and light rock and I thought the pair sounded awesome together. Warm, but also bright.
Then, I tried to use the JBL alone for light rock in the practice room and wasn't happy. Too harsh. At that point, it stopped sounding good enough for jazz comping. There's a psychological experiment in there but what I'll say for now is that my perceptions vary, maybe a lot.
I then started AB'ing with various amps (Little Jazz, JC-55, Ampeg). The original Ampeg Reverberocket (1964) kept winning. My wife was the main judge, but I agreed. The JBL sounded the way powered speakers are purported to sound -- not warm.
All of this was guitar>ME70>powered speaker-or-amp.
The Ampeg consistently sounded warmer.
Then, I added the Joyo American in front of the JBL. At this point my wife picked the powered speaker and I could hear why. It warmed it up. Settings were about 9am on the Voice and Drive controls. EQ mostly around noon, but treble a little below. Level had to be about 3pm.
Oddly enough, I had connected it that way with big band just a week earlier, but I didn't like the sound I was getting (same settings, suggested by Chatgpt5) and turned off the Joyo. In the practice room, though, it sounded great.
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It seems to me these direct type of boxes,while a nice option have a few drawbacks. Unless you have a way to monitor it and hearing it comfortably, would be the main issue.
Also the high end and low end while great for keys,might be too much to deal with?
I always hear some high end fizziness in these videos. But if going direct is your only option,they certainly have upped the game!
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For a PA speaker you’d need some sort of speaker simulation. The Joyo does this. Not sure if the ME70 does?
Usually the issue is the high end which is harsh sounding with any sort of preamp drive.
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The ME70 manual reports that there is cab simulation. You turn it on by plugging a dummy plug into the Rec Out jack. The difference is very subtle, meaning, it hardly does anything I can hear.
The Joyo makes a very noticeable difference, but there is no way to turn the cab sim off, so there's no way to check out the impact of the cab sim vs the entire box, with all its controls.
Harshness and fizz in the highs are different to me. My impression is that what I think of as fizz can be a natural sound of the guitar which I can address by turning down the treble in the guitar, in the rest of the electronics, or in my hearing aids. Harshness is tougher. I wasn't able to dial it out of the guitar>ME70>JBL chain no matter what I did with 14 bands of EQ in the JBL. But, the Joyo took care of it, at least, in the practice room.
I was trying to back up vocals and I was very unhappy with the guitar sound until I put the Joyo in the chain.
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I’m quite tempted to try one of these
A fly rig style strip that runs on batteries and has an XLR output? And a USB output? For less than £70? And you can load IR’s onto it?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/317156782...tion=view_item
Apparently these are all the rage in places like Indonesia, where players go from gig to gig by motorcycle taxi. I can’t think of a premium product that offers the same feature set. Not SansAmp.
I could plug Guy’s tele into it and do a ‘worlds cheapest rig’ video. Actually that’s a good idea.
If I wasn’t worried about labour conditions. I think something has to give when things are so inexpensive.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
My finding have been that most inexpensive Electronics are noisy compared to more expensive products, but ok for live gigs.
The very inexpensive, but similar, M-Wave Cube rechargeable pedal is sold somewhere between £15 to £30.
(But, no XLR)
User Manual.
https://www.manualslib.com/guide/377...by-manual.html
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The thing is why is Boss unable to provide an XLR even on their £500 unit? Originally Posted by GuyBoden
My finding have been that most inexpensive Electronics are noisy compared to more expensive products, but ok for live gigs.
The very inexpensive, but similar, M-Wave Cube rechargeable pedal is sold somewhere between £15 to £30.
(But, no XLR)
User Manual.
https://www.manualslib.com/guide/377...by-manual.html
I don’t get it. My old Boss GT1 does most of what this unit does and presumably the new GX 1 does more - but not all. The lack of an XLR output is kind of a strange oversight. The similarly priced Mooer units do it, for instance.
Sure you can use a DI Box, but really? Mooer can do it. But I wouldn’t buy Mooer if I could buy Boss.
I’m not expecting Fractal or Neural DSP quality running off batteries for less than £500 (let alone £60), but that’s a different type of thing. That’s what you have for your theatre gig or your pop tour or whatever. It’s heavier and needs to be plugged in.
The GT1 is great for the sort of thing where you aren’t sure if you need FX or a DI but you can put it in your gig bag and have it covered. Which is a situation that I run into quite often. And - this is hilariously important for me - it doesn’t have to run off the mains. People think I’m mad, but there’s never a spare plug socket after the amp. (I mean even on the Gypsy jazz gig I was on the other night lol, couldn’t use my ToneDexter.)
(Bringing a 4-way is another thing to remember and carry - and do we really want to be daisy chaining off a couple of outlets in that way?)
To take a recent experience - I rock up to the festival gig and find I’ve been bounced to a different stage, the backline I was told would be there is being used by another band, so I have to plug my analogue pedalboard into a budget Fender amp.
In this type of case a modeller with an XLR is REALLY useful. You can roll with the punches, get your sound near enough, and not come across as an ungrateful diva. Obviously that could easily be a pro device like a Fractal etc, but a backup that can live in my gig bag is kind of neat.
So I do struggle to get my brain around the fact that a cheapo device can provide all the functionality one could possibly want in one unit and there is AFAIK no product by an established and more ‘trustworthy’ manufacturer such as Boss or Line 6 that has this function set and layout.
If there was, I’d buy it.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by Christian Miller; 04-06-2026 at 08:00 AM.
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£1.50p
kenable XLR Male Plug 3 Pins to 6.35mm Mono Jack Plug Audio Adapter... | Kenable
Not an XLR line out, but this adapter will work from a pedal into a mixer channel. It might sound harsh.
Edit: I have the very popular, but very small phantom powered Orchid Micro DI Box. 90x40x40mm, Made in Exeter, UK.
Orchid Electronics - Micro DI
Last edited by GuyBoden; 04-06-2026 at 11:46 AM.
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The Fractal AM4 looks like a worthwhile unit, at a much lower price that their FM9 as well.
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XLR output is very important to me too, that's why I've been using FlyRig 5 and that's my main thing for any situation. If I paly through a real amp I use it as reverb/delay/boost and sometimes overdrive if I feel lazy to bring my fav Boss sd-1. Some clubs have an amp but they don't mic it, so I can go direct through XLR and out to the amp at the same time, very convinient! On function gigs just straight to PA through XLR and it's my only pedal... but I might need to start thinking of bringing some kind of a speaker to those events because the situation with people who work the sound in China is rather abysmal.
Also I'm surprised to see even pros here looking for a cheap knockouts of real things, like why would you do it to yourself? lol. I'd never cut corners saving on gear for my work, but I guess it's just me.
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I don't want to leave my expensive Archtop guitar and amplifier in an English Pub. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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I managed to kill a Fly Rig 5 V1.0 after about two or three years of use. It was a good device but not amazing. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
So not overly keen to get another one of those. Also the sound was always a bit compressed. (I preferred the Joyo American sound which sounded a little better to me than the classic SansAmps - but two of those failed on me.) So hey ho.
Also no USB recording functionality or IR. And crucially for me - no battery operation. At least the new version has an XLR and a tuner.
The issue is more that the cheapo M Vave device isn’t exactly a cheap knock off of anything. It’s a device which doesn’t exactly exist in a more premium form. I would say they are missing a trick, surely I’m not a total freak. Am I?
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No thanks. I have a jack to XLR adapter. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
£1.50p
kenable XLR Male Plug 3 Pins to 6.35mm Mono Jack Plug Audio Adapter... | Kenable
Not an XLR line out, but this adapter will work from a pedal into a mixer channel. It might sound harsh.
Edit: I have the very popular, but very small phantom powered Orchid Micro DI Box. 90x40x40mm, Made in Exeter, UK.
Orchid Electronics - Micro DI
What I want is a balanced XLR line out.
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