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I've been reading about devices that give good results when run between the guitar and a powered speaker.
I just read the Tonex One (on the complex side) and Joyo American (much simpler) manuals.
I'm curious about others' experience with this sort of device.
I'm thinking Guitar> Boss ME70 pedalboard > X > Bose S1.
What should X be?
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07-19-2025 02:01 PM
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Some people seem to like these: TC Electronic | Product | COMBO DELUXE 65' PREAMP
I have no opinion, since I've never been in the presence of one. The Joyo American Sound does a good job, if you like Fender sounds.
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I’ve have a Joyo American Sound and used it on a gig once with a powered speaker as an experiment. It was OK, but a guitar amp definitely sounds better IMO.
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John A., thanks for this feedback. I'm wondering ... can you imagine any modification to the signal chain (e.g. EQ) that would have improved it significantly?
Originally Posted by John A.
I got the Bose S1 today and I was able to get a pretty good sound in my practice room. Guitar> ME70> Bose S1.
But, what happens if I need to adjust something at a gig?
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The issue might be that guitar amp speakers cut off frequencies above 4500-5000 Hz, so an EQ pedal might give you that for electric guitar.
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The Bose S1 has a setting for bandpass filter, 80-5000 hz. Originally Posted by Cunamara
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The ME70 has 4 band eq. The newer ones have 3 band. Maybe more important, it’s narrower. Fits in my rolling briefcase. The newer ones don’t. Sounds about the same for the sounds I use.
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These are the values of X that I have tried:
Pod 2
Pod XT Pro
Pod HD
Kemper Profiler
Amplifire 3
Amplifirebox
Amplifirebox 2
Zoom G3
ART Tube MP
Boss IR-2
Nux Amp Academy
Strymon Iridium
Two Notes Cab M+
Mooer P1
Tonex
TC Combo Deluxe 65
It's personal preference but in the end I was happy with this for a long time:
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Over fifty years ago, I was deep into competitive aeromodeling - control line to be more precise. In Class B Team Race, the idea was to minimize fuel consumption for a maximum of laps per one 30 cc tank. The less pit stops in a 100-lap race, the better. A clubmate of mine, a chemist with several subsequent patents to his credit, went through a number of carbohydrates to replace methanol as the main fuel ingredient. Almost there with IPA (isopropyl alcohol.) Finally, he got good results with Octane, which was expensive and difficult to obtain. The purpose of octane: to measure gasoline's ability to resist engine knocking. In the end, ordinary gasoline was the main ingredient in his fuel, which sacrificed some speed against a 50% increase in mileage. Did he become a sovereign winner? No, because faster models combined with faultless pit stop technique remained competitive.
Why am I telling this on a wrong Forum? To me, the idea of one-trick FX pedals/preamps or catch-all modeling amps combined with a powered FRFR speaker is to emulate good guitar sounds, one or thousands. If you're looking for that one Holy Grail sound, chances are that you find it easier from a guitar amp than a plethora of digitally shaped sounds. Why go for Octane and whatever additives if regular unleaded gets you there? Not to speak of methanol and some nitro.Last edited by Gitterbug; 07-20-2025 at 03:26 PM.
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Why? Weight and convenience. I need to amplify vocals and jazz guitar and I'd like to do it with something I can lift easily. Also, a rig that will work in the varied situations in which I regularly play. Originally Posted by Gitterbug
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I can totally understand the desire for light and portable. My current rig for that is a Quilter SBUS and Toob Metro. I can lift the whole thing with my little finger, literally. I've done it many times. Will it get as loud as my Vibrolux Reverb? No. But I don't need to get that loud, and it gets loud enough for me. Does it sound like a Vibrolux Reverb? Not quite, but close enough for most purposes. The DI via XLR is a plus. Not everyone will like it, but it works for me. Guitar in a gig bag, amp/cab in a small cooler bag, and I have both hands free for opening doors or whatever I need to do. I haven't felt the need for any pedals. I have a few, and have tried them, but they don't do enough to make it worth the trouble to carry them, for me. If you want to use what you have, I'm not sure that you need an X, but that's something only you can decide. Almost anything can work, as long as you like it.
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I wonder how the ToneKing Imperial preamp would sound with a powered speaker. Does anyone have any experience with the ToneKing Imperial preamp?
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I haven't spent much time tweaking it, so I'm not sure. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Apologies for not taking OP's broader context into account. In fact, I've been working towards the same goal of combining good guitar and vocal sound in an ultra-light format. My Metro 6.5FR II cab weighs 2 kg (4.3 lbs), handles 130W and is quite loud thanks to the 94 dB sensitivity of the SICA 6D 1.5SL dual-cone speaker. Ranges from bass to 15 kHz. Excellent for an archtop.
So how to feed it? A micro amp head with two independent channels, XLR input and phantom power would be ideal. The Henriksen Bud Head comes close but is bulky and pricey by my standards. One solution is an analog mini-mixer with effects (Yamaha MG06X, Soundcraft Notepad-8FX; weight +/- 1 kg) plus a neutral power amp, such as the TC Electronic BAM200 (0.9 kg). Total weight approx 4.5 kg/10 lbs, cables included.
For PA, we use a pair of stand-mounted FR II+ cabs hooked to an old Yamaha Stagepas mixer amp (2.5 kg.) The Metros are actually louder than the original speakers and weigh a fraction. Also, you can use featherweight lighting stands instead of the heavy PA stands. Behringer's PMP 500MP3 (3 kg) is a modern take on the mixer amp theme.
Of course, the more components, the more clutter. At 6.5 kg, the Bose S1 is on the light side of powered FRFR cabs, and is extremely featured, including battery operation. Good luck hunting for that great guitar tone!Last edited by Gitterbug; 07-21-2025 at 09:38 AM.
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Here's a report from my first rehearsal with the Bose S1.
In the afternoon I spend some time A/B'ing the Bose S1 with my Little Jazz. When dialed in well, the Bose S1 sounded smoother or mellower than the LJ. By comparison, the LJ sounded harsher, particularly for chords. But, that result varied with volume. When I turned the S1 up, the bass frequencies bloomed, particularly on the low E string.
I cranked down the bass on the S1, which helped. I lowered the polepiece on the low E. After some additional fiddling, I ended up controlling the bass with the ME70 4-band. Dropping the lowest band to 9am on the dial seemed to work.
At that point, the S1 sounded better than the LJ.
Then, the rehearsal starts. It's guitar trio and a vocalist. The guitar immediately sounds terrible -- with the same settings as earlier. I had the tonematch feature on the S1 set to bandpass, 80-5000hz. High notes were thin, plinky and unpleasant.
I changed it to Gibson 335/345. Apparently, this changes the internal 36 band EQ (well, according to somebody on the Internet). Bose doesn't document this (I called and asked) so you don't know what the setting is doing. And, you don't know if that 335-type is Larry Carleton or Chuck Berry.
Complaining aside, that seemed to solve the problem. I had to alter all four of my ME70 patches to include the new EQ (flat except for lows) since EQ is patch-specific, not global. I never did figure out what varied from the practice session to the rehearsal.
Once dialed in, I A/B'ed with the Little Jazz. I still had it wired to the AB switch. The S1 sounded way better. Perhaps paradoxically, it seemed warmer, but the highs also seemed more crystalline, for want of a way to describe sound with works.
I'll try it tonight with big band and Friday on a quiet gig, but I'll bring another amp to each, just in case. The problem, so far, with the S1, is being able to adjust it if it doesn't sound right. It has dozens of undocumented EQ presets and two band channel EQ. The treble control doesn't do anything either my wife or I can perceive. It's centered at 7500, which, apparently, is well above the range of our old-human hearing.
So, if it doesn't sound right, I can adjust the bass control (I can adjust treble too, but I can't hear any effect from doing so) or I can go to a long list of undocumented presets. My plan is to use the 4 band in the ME70 and, if that doesn't work, probably give up.
I also tried running the Bose S1 from the XLR out on the LJ, but that didn't seem to provide any sonic advantage, to my ear.
BTW, for vocals I plugged an SM58 right into the Bose S1 and it sounded fine
EDIT: Tried it again this morning. Cranked the volume up to see how that sounded. The bass bloomed even more, requiring additional attenuation. Looks like the amount of attenuation needed is volume dependent. So far, it seems that I can set the EQ to compensate for bass bloom at high volume and it will still sound okay at lower volume.
Another thought: I tried the ME90 which has cabinet modeling and 4 slots for IRs. How is that supposed to work? If I can, somehow, find an IR that sounds good in my practice room, how is it going to sound an hour later, or, heaven forbid, on a gig somewhere? I don't see how to manage the IR module effectively given the vicissitudes of perception and acoustics.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 07-21-2025 at 07:09 PM.
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I had a chance recently to play through a Line 6 HX Stomp recently, and I thought that did just about anything you could want. Pricey for a pedal, but it's also an amp and cab modeler.
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I still own a ~20-year-old Line6 POD Pro which is probably the first gizmo I'd grab if I had to play through a powered FRFR speaker system
...but tbh if I didn't also need reverb and chorus and a few other effects that the Pod PRO does in addition to amp modelling, I'd try my ~30-year-old Tech21 SansAmp GT2 first. Easier to carry.
[This is all hypothetical; it's been decades since I played guitar through a powered FRFR speaker system. But I do often use the POD Pro and/or the GT2 in front of a normal guitar amp.]
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John Nathan Cordy discusses Amp vs Modelers and FRFR on his channel quite a bit. Including Tonex and Helix and Fender Tone Master and many more.
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I would say it's his main focus. How many videos did he do on the Boss GT1? Originally Posted by fep
Speaking of the GT1, I bought one partly on his recommendation, and it's pretty good for recording at least. I'm getting to know it live ATM so I don't know if I would recommend. It's also dated technology. I got it because both runs on batteries and has an expression pedal, so that put it in a category by itself. The lack of IR functionality is a big mark against it IMO.
It depends what you want. If you want something to model a well mic'ed black panel Fender and don't care about anything else, your choices will be different than if you need multi FX functionality and super high end distortion models.
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The Joyo American (great pedal) is just a preamp.
It does not emulate the amp stage or, more importantly, a guitar speaker.
When used by itself, you'll likely sense something is missing. And it is.
You can either use a device that includes preamp/amp/speaker models or do them separately. Would lean towards more recent releases. They keep getting better.
As for me, I like my Joyo American -> Joyo Cab Modeler quite a bit. The latter does amps and speakers. It also has EQ as well a other stuff like mic type and position. I found the XLR direct to be noisy so I use the unbalanced out. Speaker IR's (lots of choices) are quite good as is the EQ section (hi and lo band pass, selectable graphic or para, really good EQ section). Effective amp models (6v6, 6L6, EL84) and lots of mics to choose from. Great interface and easy to navigate. Sounds like a lot to set up but it's actually easy.
Then there is the Mooer M2 I've been using quite a bit. Not as good as the Joyo setup but it's good enough and it's a swiss army knife sort of general solution. One medium sized pedal, runs on internal battery (couple of hours), has EQ, reverb, delay, looper, tuner, other stuff like a multi-fx, and allows for a bluetooth insert. The amp models and speaker IR's are fine and I can get a good sound from it. Very convenient, pretty good interface especially running from the phone app. Reverbs could be better (though 'hall' is actually pretty good) and of course there are lots of annoying presets but that's expected. It does have stereo outs and running out to two speakers can fill a room and get around any the boxy sound you sometimes get from a closed back set up. That and the occasional stereo modulation may not be jazzy.. but it's fun to play with.
Need to do a thread on a super fly weight rig sometime. One pedal, one powered speaker, guitar, done. But unlike a small combo amp, as many watts as you need, full EQ, full fidelity, full fx (verb, delay, looper), and you could even run backing tracks from your phone or plug in a mic for a vocalist. Speaker becomes the variable based on what you need, coffee shop to outdoor wedding.
Good luck.. there's lots of new stuff and I think it's only going to get better.
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I tried the GT1. There is a learning curve because it has a lot of features. I found it easy to make a mistake and get unwanted sounds. I think that problem was solvable, but I couldn't get used to the small expression pedal. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
By coincidence, I played a gig last week where the bassist used the bass version of the GT1. And, a couple of times, he lost control of his sound by pressing something accidentally.
I also tried the Boss ME90, which has some limited IR capability (four slots). But I couldn't figure out how to pick an IR from the multitude available. And, even if I could pick one, the uploading process isn't something that could be done on a gig. So, I'd have to do it in my practice room and then hope that it would sound good on a gig. If it didn't (and it probably wouldn't) what then? I wouldn't even know how to pick a different one for the next gig. Clearly, I must be missing something about the effective use of IRs.
As I understand it, a common principle is that features sell gear but simplicity makes the items useful.
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It is very compact for what it does which was a feature for me, but does have drawbacks. It wasn't too bad in my case and I am a massive lummox. What helps is you can see very obviously when you've selected an effect - provided you have it set up to act like a trad pedalboard which I do. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
There's a lot of lore to this pedal and I watched about three hours of it lol. But I have the thing set up to work the way that I find intuitive now. You have to get rid of all the default presets and go into the menus and set it all up. I can imagine many would not have time or patience for that nonsense haha.
I'd be interested to compare to something high end like the Fractal Axe FX. How well designed are these things for the gigging player, and how much messing around do you need to do in general to get them up and running?I also tried the Boss ME90, which has some limited IR capability (four slots). But I couldn't figure out how to pick an IR from the multitude available. And, even if I could pick one, the uploading process isn't something that could be done on a gig. So, I'd have to do it in my practice room and then hope that it would sound good on a gig. If it didn't (and it probably wouldn't) what then? I wouldn't even know how to pick a different one for the next gig. Clearly, I must be missing something about the effective use of IRs.
As I understand it, a common principle is that features sell gear but simplicity makes the items useful.
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I wanted four sounds from the GT1. But, all you get is up or down the patch-list. What I needed to do was start with numbers 1-4 and then duplicate those 4 patches in 5 6 7 8, and then 9 10 11 12 and so on. And then, always start in the middle of the list. As I recall it, this avoids the dreaded patch presets which sound like an emergency alien landing or, possibly, an attack, in a quiet jazz gig. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
And, again iirc, I had to disable a bunch of other things that were possible to select by mistake. Doable, but you have to work it all out in advance.
I did like the extensive parameter control. I was trying to get the expression pedal to sweep smoothly from clean to distorted without mucking up the volume -- and I almost got that. I also loved the size, apart from being unable to control the pedal accurately enough.
I've never used the Axe-anything so I can't comment on that. The thing that I do use, the ME70 might be dismissed by Axe-users. Might? Of course it would. But, it has some advantages. It's all knobs. No menus. Like a bunch of stomp boxes that can remember a patch. Anything you need to adjust is likely to take 10 seconds or less, even bending forward in the dark on a gig.
The ME70 has two advantages (apart from price) over the ME80 and ME90. It's narrower so it fits in a standard rolling briefcase. Also, it has four band EQ, while the more advanced models have only 3.
One disadvantage. It's easier to bank switch unintentionally.
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No that's no necessary as it turns out. You can in fact assign the footswitches to work as pedal triggers and use one of the rotary knobs to scroll through patches. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
So I usually have the first pedal set as a delay, the second as modulation or boost, the third as drive. More like a small traditional pedal board.
I have no idea why they chose to set it up the other way by default. Completely useless. Maybe bedroom players like that.
I'd put up a YouTube link, bit its kind of irrelevant to you now...
Yeah I like the look of those more analog looking designs. I'm not really a screens guy when it comes to gear. Also I quite liked the old COSM models. Very giggable. But I wanted a wah-pedal and battery operation (Am I the only person who finds it strangely difficult to find an extra power socket at gigs?)And, again iirc, I had to disable a bunch of other things that were possible to select by mistake. Doable, but you have to work it all out in advance.
I did like the extensive parameter control. I was trying to get the expression pedal to sweep smoothly from clean to distorted without mucking up the volume -- and I almost got that. I also loved the size, apart from being unable to control the pedal accurately enough.
I've never used the Axe-anything so I can't comment on that. The thing that I do use, the ME70 might be dismissed by Axe-users. Might? Of course it would. But, it has some advantages. It's all knobs. No menus. Like a bunch of stomp boxes that can remember a patch. Anything you need to adjust is likely to take 10 seconds or less, even bending forward in the dark on a gig.
The ME70 has two advantages (apart from price) over the ME80 and ME90. It's narrower so it fits in a standard rolling briefcase. Also, it has four band EQ, while the more advanced models have only 3.
One disadvantage. It's easier to bank switch unintentionally.
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I carry a plug strip or an octopus plug (are they still called that?) It's the thing the fireman that came to your elementary school class told you not to do. Although, I'm not plugging in a toaster, a sauna and an electric heater. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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