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I think that there exist three very different types of archtop guitars (and maybe a couple more).
For sure we have:
A) Acoustic archtop guitars. These can be made with or without a cutaway in a variety of tonewoods and sizes. To further complicate matters, these can be made to be primarily amplified with heavier tops and bracing.
B) Electric laminate archtop guitars. These can be made with or without a cutaway in a variety of tonewoods and sizes. They may have one, two or three pickups and the pickups can be single coil or humbuckers.
C) Solid wood Electric archtop guitars. These are like option B only they are made of solid woods, sometimes carved and sometimes pressed. And to complicate matters, sometimes these will be a combination of solid wood tops with laminate sides and back.
And then arguably, there are the following:
D) Archtop Semi-Hollow guitars. The 335 and it's progeny. Lots of sizes, tonewoods, pickup choices and these can be laminate like the 335's or carved solid woods like the Gibson Pat Martino.
E) Archtop solid body guitars. The Les Paul and it's progeny. Lots of sizes, tone woods, pickup choices and various chambering options.
So which archtop exactly are folks here hoping to see a "resurgence" of? Some of these types of guitars are doing quite well as I write this. I suspect that all five of the types of archtops I have listed will always have their fans. The Les Paul and 335 Types will continue to dominate and the fully carved, non-cutaway acoustic archtop will probably have the smallest audience, which is strange to me as IMO, they are some of the best acoustic guitars ever made. Anyone who has played a fine, genuine D'Angelico will know exactly why I opine in this way.
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12-29-2024 09:08 PM
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I've never played a real D'Angelico so I don't know firsthand what you are talking about. I have heard (but again never played) some wonderful early 30s L-5, which have a remarkable throaty warmth. Yum. And there are a number of Rob McKillop videos playing a Loar LH-700 which sounds wonderful in his hands, quite close to the early 30s L-5 on which they are based.
And I've heard a lot of bright, nasal archtops whose acoustic sound didn't do much for me. Many of those fall into the B and C type guitars that SS delineated. Some of them don't sound that good amplified...
Archtop guitars are hard to make and hard to make one that sounds really good. Is it the pinnacle of guitar luthier? Perhaps.
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Dot neck 16 inch L-5's are amazing sounding acoustic guitars, right up there with Early, non-cut D'Angelicos. And both rival the best pre-war Martins for pure acoustic guitar sound. As luck would have it, more guitar players lust after the high end flattops than they do the archtops, making those DA's and Gibsons a bargain by comparison.
Originally Posted by Cunamara
By the advent of the 17 inch L-5, I think volume became more important than tone and I have heard many that were loud and a bit tinny to my ears (certainly too bright in any case). While those guitars might be good for un-amplified rhythm guitar with a big band, I have never enjoyed sitting down and playing chord melody solo guitar with one of those.
PS Rob would sound great playing just about any acoustic guitar.
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Heritage continues to build/sell their high quality archtops. Their H530/H575/Eagle Classic models are very competitive and reasonably priced, especially on the used market. Obviously they believe the archtop market is strong enough to push out their products.
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Roaming through guitar shows, I've seen stand after stand with Strat, Tele or LP derivatives ("clone" is an unduly pejorative word in this context because there's a lot of skill and workmanship involved after all) which look identical from a distance of say 10 feet. To me, hollow-bodies, whether factory made or unique; whether carved, pressed or laminate, are about real luthiery. They should cost a lot more than a plank. Looking at the offering by Ibanez, Epiphone or Godin, we're blessed with reasonably priced, perfectly usable instruments. And, if you can get a luthier-made, carved archtop for the price of a used L-5 or even an early ES-175, price is not an obstacle for archtop popularity. It's rather a question of music style and fashion. While solo chord-melody jazz from a carved, acoustic archtop is the climax of an art form for many of us, it's not for the masses. As well, authentic, acoustic big band comping is a thing of the past, I'm afraid. Everything else can be played with just about any electric guitar.
I have been a Forum member since 2009 and, I have to say, feel that on the whole this is an aged, backward-looking community. I'm 78. It's striking how many members, in various threads, speak against the ergonomics of a full-bodied archtop. I'm sure we would all rejoice (and this thread would become redundant) if Gibson surprised us with an ES-175 reissue about 2" thick. With just a few gigs per year, I'm ok with the real thing.
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Those three manufacturers make a lot of archtop guitars, and they are sold all over the world. Who could ask for anything more? Archtops are available at reasonable prices, alongside other kinds of guitar. Many genres of music are played on the guitar, which became the leading instrument for those who grew up with rock, folk, soul and everything else. Even classical guitar has a place in the canon. Back in the day, in the golden age of the archtop, the guitar was a lesser instrument. Now it is almost universal. Rather than longing for a resurgence of their rather dated variant, archtop enthusiasts should be content that the guitar is everywhere, being played by all kinds of people in all kinds of ways. Originally Posted by Gitterbug
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I think all chatter along the lines of "what's the future of archtops" or "will archtops ever be big again" are all really just dancing around "will Gibson ever put archtops back in production again?".
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You have hit the nail on the head. What we have on this forum are a bunch of geezers who are upset that Gibson, the inventor of the archtop guitar, no longer makes them. Hey, wait a minute, I resemble that remark! Originally Posted by Gitterbug
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Absolutely. We all greatly benefit from playing such a popular instrument. The listening public is very accepting of guitar music, in all forms. Originally Posted by Litterick
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I think if we see a resurgence in the interest of archtops it would have to come from somewhere other than the jazz community.
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Think about how much labor it takes to actually make a Johnny Smith,L-5CES, Super 400, even just a ES-175. Now compare the cost to CNC machines making a Les Paul,SG,etc.
Unless you have deep pockets, Gibson isn’t going back to any real archtop regular production. It just doesn’t make enough profit!
Go with a Campellone instead, you’ll get way more for your investment!
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Geezer! GEEZER!?! How DARE.... Originally Posted by Stringswinger
You have hit the nail on the head. What we have on this forum are a bunch of geezers who are upset that Gibson, the inventor of the archtop guitar, no longer makes them. Hey, wait a minute, I resemble that remark!
Ummm.
Well.
Never mind.
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I am reminded of a coffee/beer/wine bar jazz gig I did with my old band on my Cushman carvetop. As we were packing up, a college-aged woman and her boyfriend came up and asked "so, is that a guitar or...?" I just said "yep, it's called an archtop guitar."
She made a proud man feel old.
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So true... what's this business of not making archtops anymore, Gibson? Campellone makes a great archtop. The Japanese make a great archtop. It might be time for Gibson to make the archtop great again - but not for $15,000, though, please. Originally Posted by John A.
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Again Gibson is a Corporation which is in the business of making money, not losing it!
Mark Campellone and other such luthiers are a small operation without the corporate baggage. So while still expensive, not overpriced for what you get.
Dont get hung up on the Gibson brand name, and go with a great luthier!
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Nah I don’t think they will. There aren’t many guitar heroes playing them, and the celebrities like Taylor Swift who mostly know only cowboy chords aren’t using them and wouldn’t really drive sales anyway. I dont even think gibson can save archtops now, the 175 back in the 50s would be comparable to a mid level Eastman today. Gibson couldn’t make an sell an archtop for the equivalent $2,300
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Well, by and large, archtop popularity goes hand in hand with Jazz popularity... so, i guess, the question is: Will Jazz ever see a resurgence in popularity?
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Gibson would do itself a lot of harm, if it were to return to the archtop market and fail there. If its new archtops compared badly with the originals, or with the competition, Gibson would be humiliated. Its competence and skill would be questioned. If the archtops did not sell, Gibson would appear out of touch. Gibson makes good money producing modern variants of its classic solid-bodies. It does not need to take risks making guitars that are a niche interest at best.
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Anyway... whatever style of music you play and listen to (and in whatever "idiom", i.e. "traditional" or "modern") you obviously have to like the particular tone/sound texture of an archtop in order to want to buy one... or it's not going to be your cup of tea, that's all...
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Was jazz ever popular? Originally Posted by frabarmus
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Probabily a little bit more ("back in the day") than it is today...? Originally Posted by wintermoon
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Ibanez is in the business of making money too. I have one of their Made in Japan semi-hollows - it's a world-class instrument, period, with no excuses made. For $2-3k. I assume their MIJ archtops are on the same level. All it shows is Ibanez are better industrialists than Gibson. And did you see Bruce Forman's recent streak of videos on Instagram with the red Archtop Tribute? Does it sound any worse than his Barney Kessel ES-350? Again, about $2-3k. Why can't Gibson build a guitar like that, other than the fact that they - currently - suck as industrialists? Ageing demographics, bad profitabilty all sound like poor excuses. Now that industry might be back in favour in the United States, I was simply wondering if it might be a good time for Gibson to pick up the gauntlet. Originally Posted by jads57
Last edited by m_d; 01-09-2025 at 11:44 AM.
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When I posed this question, I admit it was a topic I'd raised before in a different way. I'm not interested in Gibson, in particular or the price point of imported guitars, either. What my real concern is, is the apparent lack of re-sale liquidity for higher end (>$2.5K) instruments. In that respect, Gibson, perhaps due to brand popularity, doesn't seem to have much of a problem.
Just going on Reverb, though- it looks like Heritage's, Guild's, etc. price points are staying high, but the listings are many months or years old. Two of the guitars I've bought in the last 5-6 years, or ones like them, sat at dealers for years. This says to me, there isn't a strong demand, so people like the old guys here, or dealers who can't cut prices, will just hold onto them. That, in turn, discourages me from buying another high-end guitar, because I'm afraid I'll just be stuck with it down the road.
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Speaking as someone probably considerably younger than you: the fact that there is little liquidity at the moment makes me hold off buying anything higher end too. I have two guitars in the 1000-1500€ range and they are just really really fine instruments. Sure, I know I could get ~15% "more guitar" if I got myself a +2500€ instrument, but I am by no means a professional player and wouldn't have time to properly enjoy them anyway at the moment. So I don't need to spend that money now. Originally Posted by JGinNJ
And: at some point the used market for archtops just has to give in. The number of guitar players in the US and Europe decreases for sure in the next 10-15 years. And I can't really see why archtop in particular should get a higher share of players than they currently have. The guitar public on the whole seem to follow a collector mindset where they rather own 10 slightly different solid-body guitars + 1 lonely acoustic than an archtop.
So no, I don't see any meaningful resurgence of the archtop in the future and I hope to pick up some nice used models on the way ;-)
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As mentioned earlier in the thread - all it takes to increase the popularity of (and thereby demand for) archtop guitars is for popular musicians to use them and be seen with them.
One artist to keep an eye on, who has the potential to impact the popularity of jazzguitar, is Laufey. She is a classically trained, Berklee grad, who plays piano, guitar and cello in her concerts and has been making waves in the US since her TV debut on Jimmy Kimmel live in January 2022.
Last year she won the "Best Traditional Pop Vocal" Grammy for her 2nd album "Bewitched" (putting her in some prestigious company as past winners include Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Michael Bublé etc. Grammy Award for Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album - Wikipedia ).
In case you're wondering who she is: Laufey (singer) - Wikipedia
https://www.reddit.com/r/gibson/comm...s_she_playing/
Laufey on Her Sold-Out Tours, New Christmas Music and Gen-Z Pop-Jazz
Here's an early TikTok video she shot during COVID in May 2020 playing 'It's Only a Paper Moon'
TikTok - Make Your Day
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