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I recently saw a clip of Chris Martin talking about Martin went from a peak in sales down to about 3,000 a year in the 80's. Then the idea of MTV "unplugged" videos came along, and I guess it saved them. It got me thinking about archtops.
I've been noticing the slow sale and dropped prices of archtops in the last year, I'm guessing in part it's baby boomers thinning their toy collections.
I remember there was a time in the 70's when archtops were selling cheap in NYC, and I was too young and dumb to take advantage, but eventually they came back, along with boutique builders.
Are there any "green shoots", of a next generation of buyers?
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12-26-2024 05:33 PM
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Sure, if Taylor Swift is caught playing one
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There's a photo with a blue archtop I found on the internet--can't link to it now, since I'm at work. Not sure if she's played it though.
Originally Posted by drbhrb
It's about time for her to do a jazz album. Weirder things have happened.
Edit: found it…
Last edited by Doctor Jeff; 12-26-2024 at 08:02 PM.
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I think they already have
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I think the replacement for guitar will be HAL9000.
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Well, ChatGPT anyway. Everything we put online is fodder for the Machine (Person of Interest reference). All your data are belong to us now. Originally Posted by dconeill
As for a resurgence in the popularity of archtops, currently those are the province of the Baby Boomers and Generation Jones, maybe a few Generation X and Millennials. Since all these groups are as big as they are going to get and the first two are going to be downsizing their toys over the next 25 years, I think that unless Gen Z and whoever comes after them fall in love with archtops the future is bleak for resale values. The archtop will have to get disassociated from jazz- so, yes, Taylor Swift playing one would help. Unfortunately the younger generations may learn to play AI rather than real musical instruments.
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I just don't buy it.
The further people get from analogue experience, the more they will crave it ... eventually.
Acoustic archtops and other vibrating analogue instruments will do just fine. I'm not talking about listeners, but players, who primarily engage their senses of hearing and touch when playing instruments.
The futurists who think that we will eventually meld AI and wet brain matter to the extent that we won't need an actual sense of touch, hearing, sight, smell, and taste are ... idjits. The technologists who think we can fool the senses with ever-cleverer simulations are wrong. The ongoing degradation of our civilization may result in "Idiocracy" becoming prediction, not spoof. Or, maybe, the ongoing cretinization of music may spur a reaction, and a desire for some harmonic, melodic and rhythmic complexity. Or some authenticity, whatever the hell that means. Or ... not.
Just my 2 cents. I don't want to bother writing a book about why this is the case. Someone else can take up the fight while I go play some guitar. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.Last edited by Hammertone; 02-11-2025 at 05:49 PM.
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How might these younger generations benefit from playing archtops, rather than any other kind of guitar?
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Variety is the spice of life. There's a good cliché! Archtops (well, good archtops) feel and sound different from flattop guitar and classical guitars. All good flavours. Originally Posted by Litterick
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Quality never goes out of style. Quality archtops will always have demand. The mediocre archtops? They may be hard to sell for quite some time.
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Aside from collectors, the archtop is pretty well a thing of the past.
Talking about actual carved top,back and sides type of guitars.
They are cost prohibitive to make and not really practical for most working players.
So it’s become a rather niche type market,even in Europe,Japan.etc.
We are really lucky to have so many great luthiers like Mark Campellone,John Buscarino,etc to choose from at this time.
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We can hope that you are right and that the first-hand real experience will be sufficiently enticing that actual music does go on. We can even try to aid and abet the enticement! Playing guitars and other instruments in public, encouraging people to take up playing music as a hobby or even a profession, being ambassadors. Originally Posted by Hammertone
"Idiocracy" is rapidly becoming a prediction, unfortunately, rather than a spoof. That's a separate discussion, one about which I am increasingly pessimistic.
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The swing jazz scene didn't go anywhere, and seems to maintain its popularity for the young crowd. Plenty of swing bands around with guitarists playing archtops. It will always have its place.
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A local store recently ordered two new, far-from-inexpensive Heritage jazzboxes because the demand is there and Gibson isn’t making them. There’s another local store here that always has about 25 archtops in stock, including (at this very moment) several Collings thinline jazz models, a Benedetto, two from Slaman, two from Lukas Schmidt, some vintage Gibsons and Epiphones and of course a bunch of Eastmans. Some of those go out of stock within the blink of an eye.
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Perhaps location contingent? In my rather limited experience of playing at jazz jam sessions in Japan, archtops seem to be the preference of millennial players.
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Resurgence? No, I don’t think so. I couldn’t sell or trade my Heritage Eagle for the longest time, so I gave it to my jazz-inclined nephew who is an actively gigging player. He loves it, but I continue to be pessimistic about the future of music writ large.
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Originally Posted by Oscar67
Wow - that's, some inventory ! Where, what's the name of the atore ?
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Click Originally Posted by Dennis D
Don’t use the archtop menu, the filter doesn’t work well. Use the electric guitar > Hollowbody > full hollowbody menu.
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Don't Rockabilly, Psychobilly etc all use archtop guitars, mainly with a Bigsby.
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Their wallets and purses will be much lighter and therefore easier to carry when not so cash-heavy. Originally Posted by Litterick
Tony
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“Mainstream” is not a goal anymore. It will continue to be bottom of the barrel stuff. Taylor Swift is so big, because she has no competition. Her new comes out and sits at number 1 for 30 weeks because everything else is more and more splintered and niched.
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Taylor Swift is also uniquely good at tapping into the emotional lives of tweens, teens and young adults who find themselves reflected in her songs. She does nothing for me- I find her melodies and harmonies limited and her lyrics insipid, but as a 65 year old guy I am not her target market. Her target market is huge and willing to pay $1000 for a concert ticket, she sure as heck doesn't need me! But that's neither here nor there. Taylor Swift is not going to save the archtop guitar market unless by accident.
At $8-10,000 (or more) a pop for luthier-made high quality instruments, the market is necessarily limited but the economics of bespoke luthiery in the US require those prices to be an economically viable business. Even factory produced archtops like Gibson or Heritage have to be priced close to that range to make it work, hence Gibson heading for the door regarding archtops and sticking with what makes a profit (Les Pauls, etc.). And all archtop makers are competing against the used/vintage market, with vintage instruments being seen as inherently superior for a variety of reasons. Less expensive archtops will be made in places where labor costs and cost of living is much lower- currently China and southeast Asia and probably eventually India and Africa- either though entrenched poverty or economies with extensive government subsidies such as universal health care.
I suspect collectors who viewed archtop guitars as an investment vehicle will be lucky to break even- much as with precious metals and stones, vintage cars, what have you. The resale value of things like that is not inherent and swings in the winds. Own them because you love them and get joy from them. If you want to invest for a profit, there are better strategies that are much more liquid and much easier for your heirs to manage when you die. Whoever dies with the most toys doesn't win, they just leave a bigger mess to clean up.
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TFOA. That’s about the greatest guitar store in Europe. I ought to go, it’s not that far away. Originally Posted by Oscar67
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It needs to be seen to be believed. But if you’re interested in specific guitars then do call beforehand because they sell most of their stock online. And their stuff moves fast. They had a Collings Julian Lage that was available for like 1 minute - literally. Originally Posted by docsteve
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I think its interesting that a company like Ibanez with such a strong archtop-building history and such a great track record of signing on the best younger players hasn't created any new archtop signature models. The probably understand that potential market or lack of better than anyone, and as far as I know there's no sign that they have lined up an artist to carry forward the Benson, Metheny and Scofield mantle. That says quite a bit to me.
For what its worth I see tons of archtops out there played by swing, country, straightahead and indie rock players in my local scene. But nobody is playing new instruments, or particularly nice ones.
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