Will archtops ever see a resurgence in popularity?

[Stringswinger]

If archtops are so low in popularity why are virtually every luthier making archtops ive talked to booked out months if not years? If theyre to expensive why are the top 5 figure intrument makers so busy they have lists to get on the list? Archtops are mainly desired by jazz guitarists, whats the least popular music being promoted? (1 guess). Im old and have been playing since the '60s so lets go back to the good old days. Most "boomers" were listening to rock. Every young player wanted a strat tele or les paul and although I was facinated by jazz and saw and heard Pizzerelli, Smith , Barnes, Cinderella, Paul...etc regularly (because my best buddie and bass players dad played with them) I thought archtops were the most beauifull things I ever saw but still wanted a Les Paul (perfect example of "pearls before swine"), I had a lesson with Tal when I was a teen, we went over the fundumentals,when he asked me what I wanted to learn I said "little wing" my point is nothings changed except theres more young guys that are quite accomplished jazzers than there was then, theres more affordable "jazz guitars" then there ever was before. What I see as the biggest factor is for the gigging musician they have to have a wide range of styles to stay busy although all the top cats I know playing jazz are all busy. The instrument and music buisness has always survived on "pop" music. When my buds dad was in his living room playing Moonlight in Vermont with Bucky we were next door playing Blue Cheer summertime blues. Nothings changed. My bud and I laugh about this as now I spend virtually all my playing time trying to be like his dad! As much as the 21st century is non intuitive to me the oportunitys for learning, buying and a much wider view of music internationally cant be undervalued. So my take is they are seeing a resurgence but in a different time when chunkin 4 to the bar isnt the main job for the guitar anymore but one of many many skills you need to stay busy, archtop tone will never go out of style and the playing of them is continually evolving. Last note, I couldnt afford a fine archtop (had/have 175) till I retired, fortunately there is now a large selection at every price point and condition. Last Last note, anyone notice how many jazz albums have been rereleased on vinyl and sold out at $50. ea...shitloads

+1

I love Strats, Teles and Lesters AND I love archtops. I suspect that in both the world of guitar collectors and pro musicians (and with SUCCESSFUL pro musicians, those two groups most certainly overlap quite often) there are many guitarists who agree with my taste in guitars (and there are many who don't).

I will say that playing a rock/blues gig is easier on a plank than a full hollowbody, at least for me (How exactly did Steve Howe and Ted Nugent do that?). And at the end of the day, anybody who wants an archtop guitar can easily find one. Of course, if buying new Gibson archtops is your passion, at present, you are SOL (sorry Vinny!)

[mr. beaumont]

^^^

Yeah, I think I've figured out I just really like guitars. Almost all of them.

[ThatRhythmMan]

+1

I love Strats, Teles and Lesters AND I love archtops. I suspect that in both the world of guitar collectors and pro musicians (and with SUCCESSFUL pro musicians, those two groups most certainly overlap quite often) there are many guitarists who agree with my taste in guitars (and there are many who don't).

I will say that playing a rock/blues gig is easier on a plank than a full hollowbody, at least for me (How exactly did Steve Howe and Ted Nugent do that?). And at the end of the day, anybody who wants an archtop guitar can easily find one. Of course, if buying new Gibson archtops is your passion, at present, you are SOL (sorry Vinny!)

I agree playing rock music on a plank is easier, but there can be something exhilarating about keeping a lively hollow guitar tamed while doing so… or at least trying to do so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stringswinger]

^^^

Yeah, I think I've figured out I just really like guitars. Almost all of them.

That is lucky, guys who like cars, motorcycles, speedboats or most other "toys for big boys" lose money on their stuff as they are constantly depreciating. Guitars on the other hand often appreciate over time. At least that is what I tell my wife.

[Stringswinger]

I agree playing rock music on a plank is easier, but there can be something exhilarating about keeping a lively hollow guitar tamed while doing so… or at least trying to do so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hmm. I found skydiving somewhat "exhilarating" but I never tried it a second time. I have had trouble on loud jazz gigs with a full hollow body. I find bringing a plank relieves a lot of anxiety when playing in a new room or when playing with unfamiliar players. I have gotten strange looks from cats when I show up as a sideman with a plank, but in every case, once I start playing, it is all OK.

If you like trying to tame a howling hollowbody guitar on a gig, God bless you! Somewhere, Jimi must be smiling.

[bluejaybill]

(snip)
Perhaps my point is that archtops are available to those who need them and aren't on the verge of extinction despite Gibson's absence. It's NAMM time again. I was there in 2020 when two Gibson reps promised the return of the ES-175 within a year or two. Must be more difficult each passing year. Even if the tooling were still there, critical skills may have been lost since the discontinuation in 2019.

Whether or not it happens, I suspect they still have the skills, mainly because a 175 is a laminate, which they still use with 335's.

It is the carved top models where I really fear they may be losing the institutional memory.

PS I didn't know that a guitar player could be a back sheep in a family of photographers!

[Litterick]

If archtops are so low in popularity why are virtually every luthier making archtops ive talked to booked out months if not years? If theyre to expensive why are the top 5 figure intrument makers so busy they have lists to get on the list?

A few people have most of the money and can afford to pay others to make products for them. A few artisans can make a living by making these products.

[Stringswinger]

Whether or not it happens, I suspect they still have the skills, mainly because a 175 is a laminate, which they still use with 335's.

It is the carved top models where I really fear they may be losing the institutional memory.

PS I didn't know that a guitar player could be a back sheep in a family of photographers!

If Gibson wants to get back to making carved top archtops, I am sure they can subcontract with one or more of the dozens of highly skilled archtop makers out there and still turn a tidy profit,

[Christian Miller]

A few people have most of the money and can afford to pay others to make products for them. A few artisans can make a living by making these products.

There’s also been an uptick of interest in indie makers among jazz players too. The sort of players who own just really one or two really good guitars. The modern carved archtop is quite popular. I would say the classic Gibson models are a bit out of fashion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[joman50]

There’s also been an uptick of interest in indie makers among jazz players too. The sort of players who own just really one or two really good guitars. The modern carved archtop is quite popular. I would say the classic Gibson models are a bit out of fashion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There’s nothing exhilarating than playing a big bodied beautiful archtop
smartly outfitted with all the bling (fret inlay, binding, gold hardware).
There’s nothing like looking and admiring one either. lol
BTW, I bet you’d reconsider you Gibson remark after playing a ’72 L5!

[deacon Mark]

There’s also been an uptick of interest in indie makers among jazz players too. The sort of players who own just really one or two really good guitars. The modern carved archtop is quite popular. I would say the classic Gibson models are a bit out of fashion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, I would say the complete opposite. Gibson has been in fashion for a jazz archtops for 100 years. This has not changed one bit and in fact gotten even more fashionable. Granted they might not make them now or at the moment but an Gibson L5 is a benchmark guitar. Individual makers certainly are competing and some doing quite well but I have to say Gibson Models are not only in fashion they are in demand.

[Archie]

Whether or not it happens, I suspect they still have the skills, mainly because a 175 is a laminate, which they still use with 335's.

It is the carved top models where I really fear they may be losing the institutional memory.

PS I didn't know that a guitar player could be a back sheep in a family of photographers!

It depends. Gibson use an custom veneer stack for their laminates. I might be talking out of hand but in the EU and UK, laminate comes as two standard thickness’s:
1) Construction sized @ 1.5mm
2) Decorative sized @ 0.6mm.
This means that most makers (essentially all laminate guitars to leave Japan) and I assume all US makers, use decorative 0.6mm veneers on the top and bottom, then generic 1.5mm layers in between.

Gibson use a 1.2mm and 1.5mm decorative top and bottom which you can only get if you have incredible purchasing power or manufacture your own knife cut veneers. Vast amounts of figured woods get snapped up by the veneer industry. They have direct relationships with large logging companies operations and they do a lot of scouting. These veneers are meant for the construction industry and wood working, not really for the guitar industry.

So it could be that Gibson’s ability to get their custom figured veneers is low and therefore they are saving them for the easier to sell, higher demand, higher profit 335?
That means the only laminate hollow bodies you'll see will be special editions and limited runs.
All speculation and likely nothing to do with it. Always fun to ponder though.

The more I researched Gibson veneers the more impressed I was with them. Not impressed with poplar as a filler but their decorative layers are pretty much the best in the industry.

[joman50]

What are the specs?

[LesB3]

Not trying to rile anyone up here, but I was at one of my local GC's not too long ago, picking up an archtop we snagged from another store for cheap, and got to talking about all of the new Gibsons that were suddenly hanging on his wall (there was at least 40 when before there was less than 10). He then told me that his new Gibson rep said that they were going to start making archtops again, and that the money changers that run Gibson have run the numbers and (I suppose) figured out a way to profit from them. I don't have any way to prove any of that, but he is someone I trust (ran his own store for decades and now just works there for "fun"), not just some kid behind the desk. I tried to get more info out of him (where will they make them? who will make them? etc.) but he didn't have any more info. I would think that if they did re-enter the arena, they'd be $10K+ custom shop jobbers, not factory-made ES-175's, but who knows...

[Christian Miller]

Oh, I would say the complete opposite. Gibson has been in fashion for a jazz archtops for 100 years. This has not changed one bit and in fact gotten even more fashionable. Granted they might not make them now or at the moment but an Gibson L5 is a benchmark guitar. Individual makers certainly are competing and some doing quite well but I have to say Gibson Models are not only in fashion they are in demand.

It's not that no-one plays a Gibson, and will always have its caché as a classic sort of sound, it's more that contemporary style players seem to be looking elsewhere and the sound of those instruments is quite different.

I can't think of a modern style jazz guitarist who uses them, just Kreisberg on a 70s 175 that doesn't really count. European makers are really popular. L5's aren't that common.

I say this as a Gibson player myself. And I'm not sure I'd go for an L5 as my sound, were I shopping for a high end carved archtop, TBH. I wouldn't object if one turned up on my doorstep obviously haha.

[vinnyv1k]

For me the L-5 and 175 are the benchmark tone I cannot live without. Any archtop I have ever played I compare it to a L-5’s tone.
If it doesn’t sound close I won’t like it.

[Max405]

Well stated bro.
It would be great if Gibson got back in the game. And NOT with Army Green and Shell Case Brass dumbed down L5’s.
If any one at Gibson is listening, please make a REAL Joe Pass series ( the only guitars he wanted to play when he, “had the choice”) like the 63 D model he got from Mike Peak and the single pickup thin bodied example they made for him just before his unfortunate passing. And for heavens sake.. please, please.. let us relic our own guitars by playing them and letting them age naturally.
I really hope Gibson makes Archtops again and they don’t change the recipe that made them great.
Joe D