Jazz guitar arpeggio drills

**Longways to Go** · 01-22-2016, 01:28 PM

I'm so glad this thread got back to music, as I have been learning a lot here

I've been working with a book recently that has me solidifying some of the basic scale/arpeggio/chord forms & relationships that I previously glossed over. Instead of looking at modes in relation to the notes on the scale (ie G Ionian, A Dorian, etc) , I'm working on each mode's scale & arpeggio in G in 5 positions. This approach has been more difficult at the beginning, but it is helping me hear the various modes much more clearly. It's taking time, but it's paying off big dividends in my playing. So I'll work through G major forms, then G mixolydian, then G dorian, then G melodic minor -- clearly spelling out the differences as the 3rd, or 7th shifts. I'm gaining a lot from this study.

The only drawback I see is that all the scale/arpeggio study takes time away from learning tunes!
Only so many guitar hours in a day . . .

destinytot · 01-22-2016, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

Yes - it's excellent. But, without being flippant, I'm using my hands - and I need to know how and (more importantly) why I'm using them in a particular way.

Where you place the fingers is important, but which finger(s) you use is also worth thinking about. EDIT No-one can do that thinking for you.

I totally agree.

I wanted to expand on the above comment without trampling on others' more directly relevant contributions. Looking closely at one of Reg's videos has made me want to go off the deep end about things outside outside music - some of which find echo in what's been shared with me by percussion, didgeridoo and harmonica-playing friends.

**fumblefingers** · 01-22-2016, 03:16 PM

Guys , no disrespect to Reg (howdy Reg) but it's important to give credit where credit is due. They are William Leavitt's fingerings. Reg has selected 7 of Leavitt's 12, with some pretty obvious logic.

it is what it is.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 01-22-2016, 04:04 PM

Leavitt definitely codified it, named them, and showed the process for "evolving them" through the cycle, but the fact that Reg and a few others, who claim the same on this forum, arrived at the same type of thing on their own is again due to the facts of the way music works on a fretboard. A C-form CAGED pattern "evolves" into an E-form and so on to the A-form simply by cycling. If players say that they arrived at these on their own, I guess I'll take their word for it.

I mainly talk about Reg's fingerings to distinguish from 5 CAGED or Leavitt's 5 fingerings from volumes 1&2.

**MarkRhodes** · 01-22-2016, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

Last thing. If I could go back a few years and tell myself something re. arpeggios it would be this:

1. Learn the scale fingering from the 6th string, 2nd finger for all scale degrees (or modes if you like).
2. Learn the 2-octave 4-note arpeggios from the same finger/root at each scale degree.
3. Learn the 13th from same 2nd finger/root....
4. Learn 13th from 1st finger in each position
5. Learn the 2-octave 4-note arpeggios from the same 1st finger/root at each scale degree.
*At every step speak the scale degrees (for scales) and chord degrees (for arps) aloud and learn them. It won't take you any longer.
.

I feel the same way, Matt. Foe me now, it's numbers 1, 2, and 3. 4 and 5 will come later.

**Reg** · 01-23-2016, 12:47 AM

Basically fingerings are not new... and I'm only calling the fingerings I use... my fingerings.... because they are what I use. I knew Bill, have a few degrees from the stone age.. a berklee grad from the mid 70's... but I already had my guitar skills together. I worked on other instruments played gigs and made great friends while there ...along with composing, arranging, film composing and all the great BS that was there...

The other detail is my logic as to why I use the fingerings... and how I organize their structure... Bills approach was as fumblefingers said more in the direction of playing what was in front of you... your a working musician, which I still am. But I added many more layers of applications. Many more relationships, and their understandings, (the theory, harmony etc..) while still from a players perspective, and still based on simple guitar references.

The other small detail... I'm here, will talk and play off the top of my head...not trying to sell anything etc...

**jordanklemons** · 01-23-2016, 01:24 AM

Well I am way late to the party. Just thought I'd chime in with an arpeggio exercise, drill, study, whatever you want to call it.

It's not necessarily for 'getting started'... but I do think it's worth jumping into things that will challenge ourselves at every point of the process.

The is an exercise Brad Shepik had me do when I was studying with him. It's focused on the min7 arpeggios. It moves through all 12 keys, and it moves chromatically through them, descending one half step for each move. But the tricky part about it, is that you have to ascend through your starting notes.

So I wrote it out starting on Fmin7, on the 1st fret 6th string. After playing through the position, we descend down to an Emin7, but we ASCEND up to the next available note after F that's in the E arpeggio. Which would be G.

Check it out.

**jazzguy100** · 01-23-2016, 01:33 AM

it's like a contrary motion arpeggio voice leading thingy. cool

**srlank** · 01-23-2016, 01:35 AM

Funny.....I've been doing the same type of thing with triads lately.....moving up and down the scale on one string set, but moving in the opposite direction. Mick Goodrick's exercise

**targuit** · 01-23-2016, 04:22 AM

That is "an arpeggio study" that makes sense to play in terms of developing technique and not harming the hands.

**nick1994** · 01-23-2016, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by targuit

That is "an arpeggio study" that makes sense to play in terms of developing technique and not harming the hands.

don't want to start an argument or anything, but how is an arpeggio study going to hurt your hands?

**grahambop** · 01-23-2016, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by nick1994

don't want to start an argument or anything, but how is an arpeggio study going to hurt your hands?

here we go again...

**nick1994** · 01-23-2016, 06:25 AM

hey I've seen enough of jay over the past 3 years to know better than to get into an argument with him. just a quick explanation for his view will do without having to blow the thread up again. I have some faith that he will be able to reply whilst still remain on topic (despite the fact that it is off topic...sort of).

**grahambop** · 01-23-2016, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by nick1994

hey I've seen enough of jay over the past 3 years to know better than to get into an argument with him. just a quick explanation for his view will do without having to blow the thread up again. I have some faith that he will be able to reply whilst still remain on topic (despite the fact that it is off topic...sort of).

By way of some explanation, he did say this (regarding Reg's drill), in post 92:

"That exercise in my opinion is useless and forces the hands into unnatural positional runs. Why should I "fix" what is not broken? Ruining my hand in the process?"

**nick1994** · 01-23-2016, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

By way of some explanation, he did say this (regarding Reg's drill), in post 92:

"That exercise in my opinion is useless and forces the hands into unnatural positional runs. Why should I "fix" what is not broken? Ruining my hand in the process?"

I thought he might've explained why already. I haven't read the thread entirely.

**grahambop** · 01-23-2016, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

By way of some explanation, he did say this (regarding Reg's drill), in post 92:

"That exercise in my opinion is useless and forces the hands into unnatural positional runs. Why should I "fix" what is not broken? Ruining my hand in the process?"

Out of curiosity I have just downloaded Reg's arp drill and played it through, trying out a few different fingerings. I like it, because it goes through 2 octaves (I have tended to practise arps in one octave probably out of laziness more than anything!).

I certainly did not find it especially awkward or difficult to play (I tend to use all 4 LH fingers anyway, so maybe that helps). I cannot see why Jay thinks this could harm your hands.

There are Bach pieces for classical guitar which give me far more trouble than this, I sometimes have to stop for a rest because I can feel my hand muscles straining too much and beginning to hurt.

I am not getting that at all when playing Reg's arp drill. Incidentally I do not have large hands or anything like that, I would say my hands and fingers are average size.

**nick1994** · 01-23-2016, 07:51 AM

Yeah that has happened with me. When i practice those endless stream of semiquavers from the violin partitas I feel like I'm overworking my hand but it usually only happens the first couple of times, then it goes away. I played regs Arpeggio exercise and it didn't feel awkward but maybe he never practiced like that before.

**grahambop** · 01-23-2016, 08:02 AM

By the way a great application of Reg's drill to an actual tune, is bars 25-30 of Stella by Starlight. The patterns in the drill are great for negotiating all those descending m7b5's.

**nick1994** · 01-23-2016, 08:13 AM

I remember when I was working on that descending part I remember practicing Playing min7b5 then on E then a major arpeggio a semitone down then min7b5 then major and so on until you end up at Bb then top of the form.

**Jonah** · 01-23-2016, 08:16 AM

To me the advantage of Reg's approach that it is not technical mechanical drill... this is musical drill (whether someone sees or not) - you train music this way...
this is to get into conceptual view of the fretboard...
you can after all apply any fingerings... after all the idea of fingering should be gone at all...

Very important note that Reg repeated a few times... it shoudld be one big grid after all... since you know the concept youre in the whole fretboard turns to fit the concept immediately... it's very important and very musical idea... it should bring in not only techical skill but integrity in musical performance.

You do not have patterns after.. you just see where you are and live in it

**Reg** · 01-23-2016, 11:17 AM

Hey Jordon... cool min 7th drill. So I just read through... are the fingering basically pentatonic fingerings without the fourth... with exceptions the fingering in bar 1 and 9, the F-7 and Db-7... double finger stretch rather than just roll... but yea pretty standard pentatonic shapes... I dig them. very guitar friendly.

Remember the cat also from NY, the alto.... Bobby ?. one of his cool approaches was using pentatonic shapes and adapting for different harmonies... had some great examples from MM and H.Maj.

The drill looks great... and is great mechanical approach going through inversions... the only thing again was the somewhat break in the pattern. If you were just playing, do you use that 3rd and 4th finger stretch with pentatonic patterns?

**Reg** · 01-23-2016, 11:53 AM

A note, so I respect and dig all of Jordon's opinions etc... dig his playing and views. But when you looked at the drill... how did you approach?. I'm just wondering, I can sight read through the notes... very basic, just pattern... really don't even need to look at the notes, it's a mechanical pattern, which almost all music is...just add embellishments etc... I don't read much Tab, so that was much slower.

Anyway... I already have my fingerings together, don't need to think etc... once I looked at the tab , I realized where the fingerings were from... how they're organized, with the one exception. And basically the drill becomes understood, I figure out the organization... it's just as important as being able to sight read the notes or tab. Can instantly transpose the drill into any scale, mode or chord etc... change the drill to -7b5 chords etc... add notes. Don't need to memorize all the possibilities because I get the organization. An example of how different approaches to learning work.

So just as there are differences between basic maj/min arpeggios... same with other scales, chord tones and patterns, like pentatonics... you should be aware of them... and learn to recognize them. On guitar they will generally change articulations etc... the feel of what your playing.

**fumblefingers** · 01-23-2016, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Pocket

For anyone first visiting, this thread has become depressingly derailed. There is some good content here on the first couple of pages, (and now back on topic, thanks!) . I was hoping this thread could be salvaged, and open for people to post their favorite arpeggio drills or studies with constructive advice for "getting started" with arpeggios instead of whatever has been going on here.

There is no question that the vast majority of players here find value in arpeggio drills (or studies), and can see their obvious value toward musical applications. End of story. At this early stage in my development, I like to approach fretboard organization, ear training, and tunes using arpeggios as a starting point and building from there. If I have them down, I can easily relate scales, triads, 7th chords, and extensions. For improvising, it helps me work on a chord tone approach. I'm not burning, I'm learning™®. There are other useful applications I'm sure, and also many ways to skin a cat and many other threads to skin said cat.

Please post your favorite arpeggio drills and studies that you feel have helped you progress at various stages of learning jazz guitar. Thanks!

will do, i'll post a few basic ones, very basic ones.

**fumblefingers** · 01-23-2016, 12:25 PM

one simple exercise is to:

play all seven diatonic, one octave, 7th chord arpeggios in a single scale fingering pattern (like one of the five CAGED, or one of Reg's favorite 7 fingerings or whatever you use).

Start with the I chord whether it be from string 6,5 or 4. Play the arpeggio 1-3-5-7-8-7-5-3-1. Play the order of diatonic chords (I, II, III, etc) upwards until you reach an arpeggio that touches the highest note in that particular scale fingering pattern. Then play the order of chords backwards until you reach an arpeggio that touches the lowest note in that particular scale fingering pattern, then proceed back up to the I chord if the lowest arpeggio is not the I chord.

Apply to all of your scale fingerings (5 CAGED for example)
Apply to Major, Mel. Minor, Harm. Minor.
Apply to one inversion at a time (root position especially, or exclusively, if you prefer, hehe)

The objectives for this exercise are to:
Learn 1 octave 7th chord arpeggios
Learn them for all fingerings from your favorite scale fingering pattern system
Learn how to navigate all diatonic arpeggios for a given key in a single position/fingering pattern
Learn to produce major and multiple minor tonality sounding sequences
Learn 1-octave "building block" arpeggio fingerings for later 2 octave and 3 octave arpeggio fingerings

**grahambop** · 01-23-2016, 12:27 PM

Just for fun I took Reg's m7b5 pattern and worked it into an exercise over bars 25-31 of Stella by Starlight. Basically it consists of m7b5 arp ascending, then a sort of dominant 7 alt arp (with a few scale notes tacked on the end) descending.

I was playing it all around 7th or 8th position, so I've put in my suggested fingerings.