Thinking while playing guitar

[Patrick2]

Yo, Patrick!


The list of people who could teach things they couldn't do is long, and it proves (to my satisfaction) that ability is less important that the gift of teaching - which might be little more than realizing very clearly that the fact that YOU understand what your words mean - this means *nuttin* about whether the student understands it. Every bad teacher I've seen (jeez, I've seen a lot) have the same basic problem: they are explaining ("teaching") the thing to themselves. There's a disconnect in the process, somewhere, that makes them think, "I'm following my explanation; therefore, if you aren't, it's' because you're not listening, or you're just dumb."

A good teacher begins with the assumption that the student know little if anything. I really do NOT believe that teaching (of any subject) can be taught. You either have it, or you don't. I'll claim a bit of authority here, as education was a major of mine in college. In college, the people who, as freshmen, couldn't explain things, couldn't explain things as seniors either. Sad but true.

And regarding music, I'd far rather have a good teacher who understands what he/she's teaching, than a 1982 Berklee grad who hasn't ever really taught, and who has trouble expressing what he does, but who plays great! I'd rather HEAR the latter - but why would I pay him for lessons? Sometimes a bad teacher can leave a student feeling hopeless. "I can't understand; I must suck, so I quit." Happens all the time, because hotshot guitar players think they're great teachers, and unsuspecting students think so, too.

Patrick: remember Angelo Dundee! What a boxer he was, aye? Ooo! Killer Dundee! LOL!

Well . . . I'm deeply disappointed here. Because I really can't find too much to disagree with in this post of yours. But, given your track record with me, if you keep posting . . I'm sure that will change. HA! That was hilarious. Even I had a good laugh at what I just typed.

But, seriously . . I don't see where what you posted is any different than what I said in my pervious post.?.? One needs not be a good performer . . to teach how to perform.

We all aquire knowledge in all walks of life. Some know how to impart that knowledge to the benefit of others . . . some do not. The worst jazz guitar teacher I ever had . . . . was one of the best jazz guitar players I ever met.

[Patrick2]

Maybe not but he has a track record of teaching people to do it well. Again, no one has suggested that you need to be a great player to espouse whatever method you want. But unless you have some evidence that it actually works, then others should not be criticized for doubting its validity.

When someone posts an inquiry on this forum, of why something works . . or doesn't work. Or, asks for an opinion of how to go about practicing, learning, performing, etc., I don't think a reply should need to be prefaced with validity of qualifications to make comments. Should it? After all . . they're only opinions posted . . in response to opinions requested.

[Rsilver]

Excuse me if I'm late to this thread, but you don't want to be thinking about all that stuff when you are performing. The concepts you learn such as scales and arpeggios make good practice material, with the ultimate goal of getting them into your ear and into your musical imagination. At performance time you should try to think in music, in sounds not in concepts. Work to get your fingers and your musical imagination to be in synch so you can play melodies by ear. I know this is ideal, but every working jazz musician that I've discussed this with tell me that that is what they do!

[henryrobinett]

On an Internet guitar forum, I think I agree -- if you're talking RichB-type stuff, I agree (I once posted a video of a young South American jazz player, played a $600 Washburn, but was SO full of emotion and soul -- and Rich said, "That sucks in every way!") LOL! In many situations, I think it's perfectly okay for even a non-musician to give his opinion of a performance... that's always been going on. Critics - good and bad - do this, for example.

On a forum like this, though - probably not. Unless somebody posts in the Showcase thread. "Look at me!" thread. There, one may be asking for it. People are going to judge.
Snip ...
If it's an attempt to show, or teach - and someone slings criticism - yeah, he should show that he can do better, I
"All pigs are equal - but some are more equal than others." Orwell

And it's not necessarily to show the he or she can do better. It's more that, ok talk is cheap. Have YOU put yourself out there as well? Are YOU willing to have your playing criticized as well? Are YOU willing to have me criticize your playing too? That's all I'm saying. Not that you have to play as well or better than what you are criticizing. And by "you" I'm not referring to you.

[henryrobinett]

Don't get miffed Henry!

I'm going to start demanding people post their college degrees. I don't trust anyone with less than a Master's degree in education.

Lol! Well then I'll have to step off then!

[Patrick2]

And it's not necessarily to show the he or she can do better. It's more that, ok talk is cheap. Have YOU put yourself out there as well? Are YOU willing to have your playing criticized as well? Are YOU willing to have me criticize your playing too? That's all I'm saying. Not that you have to play as well or better than what you are criticizing. And by "you" I'm not referring to you.

Not all opinions should be perceived as being criticism . . . unless one is overly sensitive to opinions.

[Kojo27]

So I'm reading some notifications and messages on my ipad.... yada yada.

Hey Kojo/ loren.... sorry I didn't really get most of your post.... was it basically anyone can say whatever they want and as far as the context and references ... the same thing, maybe skip all the BS... we disagree on some things, who cares.

I'm OK with that. I'm OK with all the BS... it just music. (or even worse, talking about music)

I'll try and post more opinionated BS... sorry have been and am still...really busy. I do miss hanging with guitarist.


Reg

Hey Reg,

The questions I asked, one after another (why? who decides? etc.) are just stuff I hoped *everybody* would think about. I didn't and don't expect anyone to write answers, because the questions would mostly have the same answer, I think. That is, "I don't know." I wasn't - WAS NOT - picking on you personally - it just happened that you (and not somebody else) asked a guy to legitimize his remarks by proving he could do what he had an opinion about. This attitude bugs me. Unless the guy is criticizing someone else's playing, unduly. Then maybe it's in order to ask does the guy himself play, and would he post.

Nothing negative intended, Reg. It probably came off all wrong. Sorry about that. I do think that part of the thread came to a good conclusion, and that some of us see eye-to-eye now. : )

Take care, buddy -
Loren

[Spirit59]

...RichB has no playing examples online, to my knowledge, and very few people on this forum have ever heard him play...

I heard several examples of his playing some years back, most of which I guess he elected to take down for whatever reason.


I'm just a nobody on the internet but IMO, the guy plays at a very high level. In fact, I'd say a higher level than many much-celebrated, well known players.

[henryrobinett]

Yes, I keep hearing he's quite a player.

[ecj]

I heard several examples of his playing some years back, most of which I guess he elected to take down for whatever reason.


I'm just a nobody on the internet but IMO, the guy plays at a very high level. In fact, I'd say a higher level than many much-celebrated, well known players.

Seems weird that he doesn't want anyone to hear his playing, then.

[henryrobinett]

Whenever he's busted, or someone gets really pissed at him for being an asshole and or asks to hear his playing, he plays possum and suddenly gets very humble. He says that he's a nobody who likes to talk a lot of BS and that he doesn't want this attention and please would people just leave him alone. And he apologizes. Or maybe this just happened once or twice when I got on his case, and some others as well. I remember then some folks singing his praises and said he was really a fine player. And he said, no, he's just a nobody. But he backed off and removed whatever was up on whatever sites.

I'm sure he's a great player. Maybe he resents being down under, further away from the scene. Or maybe the industry got the better of him. But he seems kind of bitter.

[pingu]

Excuse me if I'm late to this thread, but you don't want to be thinking about all that stuff when you are performing. The concepts you learn such as scales and arpeggios make good practice material, with the ultimate goal of getting them into your ear and into your musical imagination. At performance time you should try to think in music, in sounds not in concepts. Work to get your fingers and your musical imagination to be in synch so you can play melodies by ear. I know this is ideal, but every working jazz musician that I've discussed this with tell me that that is what they do!

thats very good ... I like that
the way i learn that it to play very slow
but get good those notes ,
or some/most of those good notes out

to play ... purchance to dream