Chord Chart Notation Conventions

[GuyBoden]

Beginners Information.

This Chart of Chord Notation Conventions is very useful for hobby players like myself.

(A link was posted by Christian Miller in another thread. Many thanks.)


Notation Conventions| Berklee

[garybaldy]

Beginners Information.

This Chart of Chord Notation Conventions is very useful for hobby players like myself.

(A link was posted by Christian Miller in another thread. Many thanks.)


Notation Conventions| Berklee

When a chord has a b13 does the chord still include the 5 or is a b13 really a #5?

[John A.]

When a chord has a b13 does the chord still include the 5 or is a b13 really a #5?

If you're talking strictly in terms of the music-theory definition of a chord, yes a b13 includes the 5th. But as a practical matter it often doesn't due to some combination of what is physically possible on the instrument (I have only 5 fingers and 6 strings available to me) and what sounds good in the overall context.

Whether it's really a #5 and not a b13 depends on harmonic context, so there's no single correct answer to that. That said, on a guitar assuming you're playing the root of the chord on the low E string, most of the time if you see a chord written as a #5 (e.g., as an augmented dominant), what you actually play will be an octave above that and might more properly be called a b13.

[Mick-7]

When a chord has a b13 does the chord still include the 5 or is a b13 really a #5?

There are not many voicings on the guitar, other than minor 2nd tone clusters, that can include both the natural 5th and b13th.

C7b5b13 | x-3-4-3-5-4 |

C7b13 | x-3-5-3-5-4 | >> F^9 | 1-x-2-2-1-3 |

[garybaldy]

If you're talking strictly in terms of the music-theory definition of a chord, yes a b13 includes the 5th. But as a practical matter it often doesn't due to some combination of what is physically possible on the instrument (I have only 5 fingers and 6 strings available to me) and what sounds good in the overall context.

Whether it's really a #5 and not a b13 depends on harmonic context, so there's no single correct answer to that. That said, on a guitar assuming you're playing the root of the chord on the low E string, most of the time if you see a chord written as a #5 (e.g., as an augmented dominant), what you actually play will be an octave above that and might more properly be called a b13.

I would never play or attempt to play the 5 and the b13 together. Even if I did or could I don't think my ears could cope with it.
Not quite the same but, on the other hand I've heard bass players playing a straight D7 over (or under) the D7b5 in A Train and it's hardly noticeable - one advantage of been a bassist!!

[frabarmus]

My main reference for naming and spelling chords is page vi of The New Real Book (Sher Music Co.) where chords are spelled and labled in C, eccept in the bottom two staves.

In there there's C7(#5), C9(#5) and the only chord that has a b13 is Bb(add9, add b13), spelled Bb D F Gb C

[Mick-7]

I would never play or attempt to play the 5 and the b13 together. Even if I did or could I don't think my ears could cope with it.

Surely this would not give you HPTSD? (Harmonic Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)

C7b9b13/G | 3-x-2-3-2-4 |

[garybaldy]

Surely this would not give you HPTSD? (Harmonic Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)

C7b9b13/G | 3-x-2-3-2-4 |

I daren't!

[John A.]

I would never play or attempt to play the 5 and the b13 together. Even if I did or could I don't think my ears could cope with it.
Not quite the same but, on the other hand I've heard bass players playing a straight D7 over (or under) the D7b5 in A Train and it's hardly noticeable - one advantage of been a bassist!!

Honestly, If I'm comping I'm probably just playing 7 and 3 and leaving the Ab note to the melody instrument (or doing the piano counter-melody). I think this is one of those cases where the point of naming the chord that way is to alert you to the melody note and tell you not to play an A in the same octave. Unlike typical standards that you can treat as a melody and a bunch of chords you can do with as you please, Ellington/Strayhorn tunes often require more consideration as arrangements.

[pauln]

Vocabulary:
Chord Factor - 1 3 5 6 7 9 11 13
Chord- Three or more notes
Chord Tone - any note part of a functional chord (implied or expressed) = 1 3 5 7 8 11 13
Non-Chord Tone - a note that doesn't belong to a chord = 2 4 6
Extended Chord - Chord Factors stacked in thirds above the 7 (9 11 13)
Added Tone Chord - Extension pitch classes below the 7
Altered Chord - contains non-diatonic chord tones b5 #5 b9 #9 #11 b13

Theory (C):
C Major (C E G)
C Minor (C Eb G)
C Augmented (C E G#)
C Diminished (C Eb Gb)
C Dominant 7th (C E G Bb)
C Major 7th (C E G B)
C Minor 7th (C Eb G Bb)
C Minor Maj 7th (C Eb G B)
C Aug 7 (C E G# Bb)
C Aug Maj 7 (C E G# B)
C Half Dim 7 (C Eb G Bb)
C Full Dim 7 (C Eb Gb Bbb)
C Dim Maj 7 (C Eb Gb B)
C 9 (C E G Bb D)
C b9 (C E G Bb Db)
C #9 (C E G Bb D#)
C Maj 9 (C E G B D)
C Maj b9 (C E G B Db)
C Maj #9 (C E G B D#)
C Min 9 (C Eb G Bb D)
C Min b9 (C Eb G Bb Db)
C Min Maj 9 (C Eb G B D)
C Min Maj b9 (C Eb G B Db)
C Min Maj #9 (C Eb G B D#)
C Aug 9 (C E G# Bb D)
C Aug b9 (C E G# Bb Db)
C Aug #9 (C E G# Bb D#)
C Aug Maj 9 (C E G# B D)
C Aug Maj b9 (C E G# B Db)
C Aug Maj #9 (C E G# B D#)
C Half Dim 9 (C Eb Gb Bb D)
C Half Dim b9 (C Eb Gb Bb Db)
C Dim 9 (C Eb Gb Bbb D)
C Dim b9 (C Eb Gb Bbb Db)
C Dim Maj 9 (C Eb Gb B D)
C Dim Maj b9 (C Eb Gb B Db)
C 11 (C E G Bb D F)
C b9 11 (C E G Bb Db F)
C #9 11 (C E G Bb D# F)
C #11 (C E G Bb D F#)
C b9 #11 (C E G Bb Db F#)
C #9 #11 (C E G Bb D# F#)
C Maj 11 (C E G B D F)
C Maj b9 11 (C E G B Db F)
C Maj #9 11 (C E G B D# F)
C Maj #11 (C E G B D F#)
C Maj b9 #11 (C E G B Db F#)
C Maj #9 #11 (C E G B D# F#)
C Min 11 (C Eb G Bb D F)
C Min b9 11 (C Eb G Bb Db F)
C Min #9 11 (C Eb G Bb D# F)
C Min #11 (C Eb G Bb D F#)
C Min b9 #11 (C Eb G Bb Db F#)
C Min #9 #11 (C Eb G Bb D# F#)
C Min Maj 11 (C Eb G B D F)
C Min Maj b9 11 (C Eb G B Db F)
C Min Maj #9 11 (C Eb G B D# F)
C Min Maj #11 (C Eb G B D F#)
C Min Maj b9 #11 (C Eb G B Db F#)
C Min Maj #9 #11 (C Eb G B D# F#)
C Aug 11 (C E G# Bb D F)
C Aug b9 11 (C E G# Bb Db F)
C Aug #9 11 (C E G# Bb D# F)
C Aug #11 (C E G# Bb D F#)
C Aug b9 #11 (C E G# Bb Db F#)
C Aug #9 #11 (C E G# Bb D# F#)
C Aug Maj 11 (C E G# B D F)
C Aug Maj b9 11 (C E G# B Db F)
C Aug Maj #9 11 (C E G# B D# F)
C Aug Maj #11 (C E G# B D F#)
C Aug Maj b9 #11 (C E G# B Db F#)
C Aug Maj #9 #11 (C E G# B D# F#)
C Half Dim 11 (C Eb Gb Bb D F)
C Half Dim b9 11 (C Eb Gb Bb Db F)
C Dim 11 (C Eb Gb Bbb D F)
C Dim b9 11 (C Eb Gb Bbb Db F)
C Dim Maj 11 (C Eb Gb B D F)
C Dim Maj b9 11 (C Eb Gb B D F#)
C 13 (C E G Bb D F A)
C b9 11 13 (C E G Bb Db F A)
C #9 11 13 (C E G Bb D# F A)
C #11 13 (C E G Bb D F# A)
C b9 #11 13 (C E G Bb Db F# A)
C #9 #11 13 (C E G Bb D# F# A)
C Maj 13 (C E G B D F A)
C Maj b9 11 13 (C E G B Db F A)
C Maj #9 11 13 (C E G B D# F A)
C Maj #11 13 (C E G B D F# A)
C Maj b9 #11 13 (C E G B Db F# A)
C Maj #9 #11 13 (C E G B D# F# A)
C Min 11 13 (C Eb G Bb D F A)
C Min b9 11 13 (C Eb G Bb Db F A)
C Min #9 11 13 (C Eb G Bb D# F A)
C Min #11 13 (C Eb G Bb D F# A)
C Min b9 #11 13 (C Eb G Bb Db F# A)
C Min #9 #11 13 (C Eb G Bb D# F# A)
C Min Maj 13 (C Eb G B D F A)
C Min Maj b9 11 (C Eb G B Db F A)
C Min Maj #9 11 13 (C Eb G B D# F A)
C Min Maj #11 13 (C Eb G B D F# A)
C Min Maj b9 #11 13 (C Eb G B Db F# A)
C Min Maj #9 #11 13 (C Eb G B D# F# A)

Practice:


Assistance:
Pop-up piano

[Reg]

For Notation...
"Standardized Chord Symbol Notation" ( A Uniform System for Music Profession)
By Carl Brandt.... Composer,
Clinton Roemer... Copyist

From the 70's... used in many music programs etc... Still the standard. There's more modern concepts, but that's still the Reference.
(the little red book)
Free all over...

[Bob_Ross]

Notation Conventions| Berklee

I think it's hysterical that that chart appeared on a Berklee College of Music website ...because, when I was a student at Berklee (late 1970s) the curriculum was pretty adamant that there was only one preferred way to write any given chord symbol; all the alternatives simply created confusion.

[Christian Miller]

I think it's hysterical that that chart appeared on a Berklee College of Music website ...because, when I was a student at Berklee (late 1970s) the curriculum was pretty adamant that there was only one preferred way to write any given chord symbol; all the alternatives simply created confusion.

And then they graduate, encounter charts in the real world and realise confusion is inevitable and it’s the flipping Wild West out here man.

I suppose the logic is that they train their musicians to avoid contributing to it, and slowly everyone picks up on it. And I think that’s cool, and there’s no good reason not to honour those conventions when writing your own charts. Though I’m still gonna say ‘half diminished’ and I like the little sign for it.

Don’t come at me.

I will write -7b5 like a good boy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[garybaldy]

And then they graduate, encounter charts in the real world and realise confusion is inevitable and it’s the flipping Wild West out here man.

I suppose the logic is that they train their musicians to avoid contributing to it, and slowly everyone picks up on it. And I think that’s cool, and there’s no good reason not to honour those conventions when writing your own charts. Though I’m still gonna say ‘half diminished’ and I like the little sign for it.

Don’t come at me.

I will write -7b5 like a good boy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like to write the 'circle with the slash' for quickness, but prefer to read m7b5!

[rpjazzguitar]

I read different sorts of stuff all the time. If there's a "right way", it's clear that a lot of charts don't employ it. You have to get used to reading all kinds of stuff. For example, older Brazilian charts can have some things that look very odd to the American eye, like 74 chords.

If there's one thing I'd encourage chart-writers to do it's to make the font for the chord symbols as large as possible while still positioning the symbols over the beats where they should be played. What I don't want to see is a bunch of tiny chord symbols crammed into a small space - and the position of the symbols on the page is inconsistent with the actual hits. I don't care a bit whether you use a triangle or maj, m7b5 or circle with a slash, but I do need them big enough to read.

[Christian Miller]

I read different sorts of stuff all the time. If there's a "right way", it's clear that a lot of charts don't employ it. You have to get used to reading all kinds of stuff. For example, older Brazilian charts can have some things that look very odd to the American eye, like 74 chords.

If there's one thing I'd encourage chart-writers to do it's to make the font for the chord symbols as large as possible while still positioning the symbols over the beats where they should be played. What I don't want to see is a bunch of tiny chord symbols crammed into a small space - and the position of the symbols on the page is inconsistent with the actual hits. I don't care a bit whether you use a triangle or maj, m7b5 or circle with a slash, but I do need them big enough to read.

The French write 7M for major 7th.

Yeah maybe the standardisation project is doomed to failure.

And then you have things like .... this



Behold, the final form of the "la grille harmonique!" (I note there is also a C7/9- for C7b9)

Take that, Berklee!

[Christian Miller]

I read different sorts of stuff all the time. If there's a "right way", it's clear that a lot of charts don't employ it. You have to get used to reading all kinds of stuff. For example, older Brazilian charts can have some things that look very odd to the American eye, like 74 chords.

If there's one thing I'd encourage chart-writers to do it's to make the font for the chord symbols as large as possible while still positioning the symbols over the beats where they should be played. What I don't want to see is a bunch of tiny chord symbols crammed into a small space - and the position of the symbols on the page is inconsistent with the actual hits. I don't care a bit whether you use a triangle or maj, m7b5 or circle with a slash, but I do need them big enough to read.

The French write 7M for major 7th.

Yeah maybe the standardisation project is doomed to failure.

And then you have things like .... this



Behold, the final form of the "la grille harmonique!" (I note there is also a C7/9- for C7b9). It's possible a Db in the bass is implied (I'd normally play it on this tune.) In GJ circles you are expected to know that an A13b9 for example has a Bb in the bass. I mean the bass can play A if it likes, but the guitar must absolutely play 6 x 5 6 7 x or you get points deducted.

Take that, Berklee bros!

how did I learn all of this stuff? Experience. You can't come up with a neat system for music, and no-one has tried harder at that than Berklee. However, people, and are messy. Often for no reason.

In a minute a Frenchman will appear to tell me how the grille above is perfectly logical. I will say only - have pity, for my literal and linear Anglophone mind cannot comprehend such things. It reminds me a cartoon I saw as a kid called 'Les Maîtres du temps'.

[Mick-7]

In a minute a Frenchman will appear to tell me how the grille above is perfectly logical.

It is if written in French: a, bé, cé, dé - etc. (but I am not a Frenchman so may be mistaken).

[Christian Miller]

It is if written in French: a, bé, cé, dé - etc. (but I am not a Frenchman so may be mistaken).

if there were whacky shenanigans would be fixed do solfege - Do Re Mi etc for C D E. Common in most romance speaking countries but seems international chord charts still use letter names.

I assume it’s possible but have yet to see this in the wild.

That would be fine compared to the possibility of German chord charts. Do they have B7 for Bb7 and H7 for B7? Anyone?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wolflen]

I remember..when I first met the notorious half-diminished chord..In this example..E half diminished

I looked at it..turned it over..looked underneath and behind it..called it by name to see if it responded to that label.

then I wanted to know what it does exactly..and where it does it.

Now the real confusing part for me to understand..that no one could give me a HALF decent explanation was..

OK which HALF is Diminished and which diminished is being cut in half.

I finally gave up on trying to figure it out..so I asked my teacher what he did with it..like in a blues progression His reply..

E half diminished eh..lets call it C9..no root.

Ahh..it was like the clouds opened up..I can see I can see!!!

And from then on..the half diminished chord has not been welcome on my fretboard

[garybaldy]

I remember..when I first met the notorious half-diminished chord..In this example..E half diminished

I looked at it..turned it over..looked underneath and behind it..called it by name to see if it responded to that label.

then I wanted to know what it does exactly..and where it does it.

Now the real confusing part for me to understand..that no one could give me a HALF decent explanation was..

OK which HALF is Diminished and which diminished is being cut in half.

I finally gave up on trying to figure it out..so I asked my teacher what he did with it..like in a blues progression His reply..

E half diminished eh..lets call it C9..no root.

Ahh..it was like the clouds opened up..I can see I can see!!!

And from then on..the half diminished chord has not been welcome on my fretboard

Or Gm6

[starjasmine]

OK which HALF is Diminished and which diminished is being cut in half.

Diminished triad with b7 aka m7b5 == half diminished
Example C Eb Gb Bb
As opposed to "full diminished" == diminished triad with diminished 7
i.e. flat the m7 interval to get a dim7 interval (enharmonic to maj 6)
Example C Eb Gb Bbb

[Mick-7]

E half diminished eh... lets call it C9... no root.

That is it's diatonic synonym, V7 (C9 no root) = VIIm7b5 (Em7b5), but it usually functions as a IIm7(b5) chord, so Gm6, C7's relative IIm chord, is a better reminder of that relationship - Gm6 = C9 (no root) = Em7b5.

We have ruined your joke but only 50% of it was funny anyway.

[wolflen]

That is it's diatonic synonym, V7 (C9 no root) = VIIm7b5 (Em7b5), but it usually functions as a IIm7(b5) chord, so Gm6, C7's relative IIm chord, is a better reminder of that relationship - Gm6 = C9 (no root) = Em7b5.

We have ruined your joke but only 50% of it was funny anyway.

Ya know Mick..half the time your a kill joy...

ok ok..please no puns...please

[Aiq]

The mother sauce?