I want to play like this guy, how do I do it?

[John A.]

The video in the OP strikes me as a bit of Chet Atkins and a bit of Les Paul. There are Chet Atkins versions of that tune, and I think I hear some direct lifts. But he’s not as contrapuntal as Chet, and the overall flavor is a little more Les Paul-ish. Most of his chords are actually just 3rds and 6ths, with some scattered triads.


Anyway, the vibe is country/Western swing. So, I’d say listen to Chester, Lester, and, Merle Travis, see what you can lift by ear, Google for transcriptions and tabs of particular tunes, and look for lessons in those styles on YouTube.

I’d also suggest looking for videos by Chris Whiteman and Jake Reichbart. Though not really that vibe, they both do great solo arrangements that they present very clearly. You can pick up a lot of building blocks from just a few of their lessons.

[AllanAllen]

Most of his chords are actually just 3rds and 6ths, with some scattered triads.

That's the implied harmony I was talking about. I think it's harder to learn xxx23x as C6/9 in isolation over learning x32233 as C6/9 and omitting what you don't need. Which, as a pianist, he will have to adjust that the / doesn't literally mean play the 9 in the bass anymore.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Thanks for your reply but that's really not the style I'm after.

Interesting, since both John A and I got the same Chet-like vibe from your demo. I added a swing guitar version to my first post that may be closer to what you'e looking to do. The first verse is pure chord melody and would also sound more modern without the backing track. Stop it after 45 seconds if you're not interested in the single string melody that follows. Here it is again if you didn't notice the edit in the first post:

[ragman1]

OP -

Well, I hate to say it, but this player, whose name is Henni Mouton, (apparently, because mouton means sheep :-)), isn't really playing chord melody as we know it. The other vids on his site here are all single note performances against a backing track:

Hennie Mouton - YouTube

This is the only one (I think, may be wrong) that he strums a sort of melody vaguely with the chords. And they seem to be mostly , probably, his favorite tunes or something.

In other words, I don't think he really knows how to do it. I think he's developed his own style, probably shown by the way he's not using his first finger which sticks out strangely.

So when you say you want to play like him, be cautious. You might, but his seems to be rather a personal way of doing things. Which means there won't be a book or formal teaching of it.

You might be able to get in touch with him but it's doubtful. In any case, he's quite likely to say 'Oh, I don't know, i just kind of fudge my way through it!'.

If you're really keen on playing tunes and chords at the same time you'd do better to find an accepted way of doing things. As for being primarily a pianist, I guess you'll just have to figure it out your way. With instruction, naturally :-)

[pamosmusic]

Thanks for your reply but that's really not the style I'm after.

Im with the others on this one … sounds like Chet and Les Paul. Maybe more Les Paul than Chet, but still.

You also need to find music that really represents the style you like. That’s important work and kind of the fun part and you need to do it yourself. I don’t think k you’ll find a better rec than Chet and Les Paul. Note that both of those dudes were recording industry stapes for half a century so one video shouldn’t be enough to write them off as not your style.

Put Les Paul into Spotify and listen to the big recordings. Then click the thing that says “Les Paul Radio.” If you find a song you like, click on that artist, listen to the big songs, and click [That Artist] Radio, rinse repeat.

Also I’m not sure anyone has mention this … and maybe this is not nice to say … anyway here goes. So the guy in the video is a nice player, but I’m not sure that’s what you want to model yourself on. Look for who that guys listening to. That’s like finding a video of a dude on YouTube playing Wes style octaves and being like “yes — this is my guy.”

Aim high.

[pamosmusic]

Broadly speaking, with respect to playing that kind of chord solo ...

I was looking to see if Allan had recommended this one, but I bought this one when he was posting about it and it's a very good book for the chord soloing kind of thing generally.

It's geared toward swing guitar (the kind of thing Jonathan Stout is doing above)but this rhythmic style and that of Les Paul and others probably has more to do with that kind of style than from the bebop sort of thing or the 6th diminished stuff. Though also the strategies in the book could be used for the 6th diminished stuff with a little creativity. Which is also very fun.

Early Jazz Guitar Chord Soloing - GuitarVivo

[Ukena]

Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
I see this in a totally different light. "On keyboard instruments, there aren't the same challenges"??? With all due respect, I think that's nonsense.



Many years ago I realized that although one can play a tune on a piano after only a day or two, and that it takes months for an oboe player just to get a sound out of the instrument that won't drive people out of the house, it takes just as much work to be a superb pianist as it does to be a superb oboist.

The Chet/Merle version of See You in My Dreams is probably one of the first tunes an aspiring fingerpicker works to pick up (it certainly was one of my first), and most people I know who aspire to that style know that tune. The only way to learn it is to practice it over and over, a phrase at a time. I (and most of the friends who also learned it) learned it before the internet came along, with all its hints and videos, by ear. The OP video seems like a simplified version of this style.Here's one of Merle's versions, which to me seems a little more complex than Chet's (there are also numerous videos of Mark Knoepfler playing the tune with Chet):

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

most of the friends who also learned it learned it before the internet came along

Long ago when I was a boy, we learned it by playing the 33s back at 16 I was so heavy into Chet when I was about 14 that I put a Bigsby on my 345. The 345 was a well worn '58 or '59 (we never cared about years back then) that my dealer came across and decided would be a perfect first "good" guitar for me. He did the frets and traded it to me for my LG-1 (which I'd bought new from him about 3 years before) and all the money I'd saved so far for a guitar - about $75 IIRC. When I got the Chet bug and asked him about a Bigsby, he pulled out a used one he'd salvaged from a full depth guitar. He cut down the end plate while I sat there watching, and it was mounted in half an hour.

I was on my way to

I'd bought every Chet album I could find in my hometown. I learned great tunes like Windy and Warm, Whispering, Lambeth Walk, Salty Dog and Sweet Georgia Brown. But I was really jonesing for a 175. When I got my copy of The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes and I saw him holding one on the cover, it was love at first site - and the 345 just wasn't a jazz guitar. My dealer knew this. Months later, he finally found me a used 175DN (a '59 or '60) in fine shape. Again, he did the frets, set it up with Gibson flats, and traded me the 175 even for the 345. One I got that 175, my life changed and I never looked back. I didn't care about a Bigsby any more. I didn't care that Tony Mottola played a 355. I'd found my calling and my instrument.

It was about then that I quit piano lessons. But what I learned from 10 or so years of piano and theory lessons has stayed with me. I still play keyboard gigs when a friend or a venue needs me to do it, and we have a grand in the living room. So I can respond with some authority to the OP's statement that

It is not so straightforward to sight read and harmonise a melody on guitar, it takes some forethought.

It is if you know a fretboard as well as you know a keyboard. Do not be so dismissive of your own abilities on the piano. If you feel at home on a keyboard, you've accomplished something wonderful and durable. But you have to do that on guitar too if you're to feel as comfortable and natural playing it. The other problem is that you've been playing keyboards for a long time and probably forget how hard you worked to develop your basic skill set on it. You're considerably older now that you want to reach the same level on your guitar. Speaking as a septuagenarian, I can assue you that it ain't as easy for any of us decades later as it was when we started. Take heart - if you put in the work, the ease will come.

[rpjazzguitar]

What he's doing strikes me as less simple than it looks.

The chord shapes are nothing fancy, but the way he uses them with his right hand motion makes them swing. That's not so easy to do.

If the OP learns his basic chords, he'll be able recognize them in the video. But the right hand is going to be trial and error and it can be difficult to get in that rhythmic pocket as well as the player in the video.

Just MO.

[starjasmine]

OP, if it makes you feel any better, I have to think hard to play on piano things that come very easily to me on guitar. This is a point that others on the thread have made already: perhaps you have muscle memory and aural memory on the keyboard that you have not developed to the same degree on guitar. I certainly don't have that muscle memory on piano. I have to ideate (spell) the notes of the chord/scale/melody I want to play on piano, but I can usually "just play it" without thinking on guitar. Most certainly because I've probably spent 100x the hours on guitar that I've spent on keyboards.

In that regard, just keep at it. You'll get there.

Yes, there are at least five (if not MANY more) ways to finger ANY melody on guitar. Here is my favorite example:

Fingering mechanics can be daunting at first but it also gets easier as you gain more familiarity with the fretboard and with different ways to navigate it. Don't be too concerned with finding the "one right way" to finger anything. Find a way that works for you. Other ways will reveal themselves over time.

I also thought of Chet when I listened to the Mouton example clip that you posted. I am not a Chet expert, but that's the vibe I got from it as well, not the "dropping in block chords to harmonize the melody" approach that I think of as "chord melody." Definitely more a country swing vibe than a mainstream jazz chord vibe. My advice is pretty much a "plus one" on what others have already said: learn the melody VERY well, so you can play it without thinking, and then add some simple harmony to that. Dropping in a few thirds or sixths (as another poster has suggested) will get you 90 percent of the way to that Chet vibe. For a fuller sound, learn to use the Mickey Baker diatonic chord grips in all keys for in-key notes and use full diminished chords for passing tones, as your Mr. Mouton does.

Keep the chording and harmonizing minimal - I think that's what allows Mouton to navigate so freely: he's not trying to harmonize every note, or really many of them at all. A lot of the time he just hews closely to the melody or throws in a little single-line embellishment.

Parting shot: just play. Copy playing that you like. There's no book that is going to provide a shortcut. There are a lot of books, videos, private lessons, jams with other players, etc that can teach you things that will help you to play the way you want to play, but there's no shortcut. Just find things you want to play, and learn how to play them. One step at a time. Enjoy the journey.

[charlieparker]

I follow this guy on youtube:

I'll give you a bit of background and then it might make more sense. I'm not really a guitarist, although I have owned and played guitars almost all my life. I'm primarily a pianist and organist playing popular repertoire from about the 1920s - 1960s. This is mostly the sort of great American songbook type stuff arranged as swing, foxtrots, quicksteps, etc. for organ. The same goes for piano, I play more or less the same repertoire just with more pianistic arrangements.

Why am I telling you this? Because I understand music as simple chords and melody with some embellishments, runs, fills, harmonic movement etc. I always read, I cannot just sit down and "improvise" and never try. If I do "improvise" melodies I'm simply using the chords from whatever tune is on the music stand in front of me and play an improvised melody against the accompaniment. It's simple, it works for me, I find it easy, I can sit and play for hours and entertain myself and others.

But I cannot do it on guitar. What I know and understand and my way of thinking from playing keyboard instruments does not make any sense on guitar. And it frustrates me because it seems like it should but I've never found a simple way to make it work. Guitar takes too much "thinking" for me for it to be enjoyable. I'm not thinking when I'm playing organ or piano, I'm enjoying playing music.

Anyways, the guy in the link seems to be doing it. He seems to be playing the guitar in the same way I approach music on keyboard instruments. You may think it's boring or "vanilla" or doesn't sound particularly modern, but that's fine, it's close to the style I'm trying to achieve.

Here's what I take from watching him play. He flows, it looks natural, there is none of the awkwardness usually associated with trying to play melody and harmonies at the same time on the guitar. He appears to be using just a few simple chord shapes, mostly on the top 4 strings with some bass notes on the 5th. I don't see him using chord shapes that involve the 6th string much. (By 6th I mean the low E). He's reading I think, in several of the videos he appears to be referring to an arrangement or a score. Which would suggest he's fluent in being able to read and find everything he needs under his hand, in the same way we would play a keyboard instrument.

What are those chord shapes he appears to be relying heavily on, he comes back to very similar shapes in almost every bar?
I notice that it "sits" well under the hand. He rarely has to stretch and for the most part he is able to find everything he needs whilst keeping his left hand in a relaxed 1 finger per fret type frame. When he does have to shift positions he's rarely having to move far.

You might have to watch a few of his videos to get the idea and see that he appears to be applying a "formulaic" approach to any tune.

I can find no other information about this guy other than the few videos on his youtube channel. I do suspect though that there must be plenty of players who used to play this way, I imagine if you learned to play in the 1950s and 60s this was probably not an uncommon approach.

I wonder if anybody knows any other players we could look up who have the same sort of style? I wonder if there used to be books, either method books or books of arrangements, again probably from the 50's or 60's, where tunes were arranged in this way? He must have learnt it from somewhere.

Thanks.

Sounded like a Chet Atkins style without the finger picking.

[padraig]

I'm not sure anybody is really understating what I was originally asking. Why are we talking about Chet Atkins? The chap in the video is nothing like Chet Atkins, are we talking about the same video?

Everybody seems very keen to tell me all about playing the piano or how they are able to see the guitar fretboard just like I see a piano.

Great. But what chords is he playing in the video? That's all I asked.

[ragman1]

I'm not sure anybody is really understating what I was originally asking. Why are we talking about Chet Atkins? The chap in the video is nothing like Chet Atkins, are we talking about the same video?

I think that was the main point. Your guy isn't doing it as it should be done. I explained it to you. He's an amateur who's invented his own strumming style or something. But there are a hundred vids on YouTube that show you how to do it correctly plus the right chords.

But what chords is he playing in the video? That's all I asked.

Copy his fingers. That's what we'll have to do. And some of them are rather dubious anyway. Sorry, not your fault but there it is.

[padraig]

Your guy isn't doing it as it should be done. I explained it to you. He's an amateur who's invented his own strumming style or something. But there are a hundred vids on YouTube that show you how to do it correctly plus the right

Riiiiight, so he's just doing it "wrong" is he and I should be listening to Chet Atkins instead?

Let's be clear. I dont want to listen to Chet Atkins. I prefer this guy. I would like to know what chords he's playing.

It's Saturday today, I think it's going to be quicker to write it out myself than wait for an answer on here.

[John A.]

Riiiiight, so he's just doing it "wrong" is he and I should be listening to Chet Atkins instead?

Let's be clear. I dont want to listen to Chet Atkins. I prefer this guy. I would like to know what chords he's playing.

It's Saturday today, I think it's going to be quicker to write it out myself than wait for an answer on here.

That is always the right answer. Good luck.

[ragman1]

Riiiiight, so he's just doing it "wrong" is he and I should be listening to Chet Atkins instead?

Let's be clear. I dont want to listen to Chet Atkins. I prefer this guy. I would like to know what chords he's playing.

Look, I get the frustration. I understand you like what he's doing, probably reminds you of a piano version. For what it's worth I don't go much on Chet Atkins either.

But generally we try to get things right here musically. What he's doing is some strange thing of his own. Also, you'll notice he's playing with a nice rhythmic backing track. How do you think it would sound without the backing? Do you think it would carry the tune properly or all sound a bit fuzzy because of the strumming?

My own immediate instinctive feeling was that you're wanting to copy an amateur style rather than a proper rendition. I'll go so far to say you might realise that and change your mind about it later.

I'll look at it presently and see if I can salvage something for you.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Riiiiight, so he's just doing it "wrong" is he and I should be listening to Chet Atkins instead?

Let's be clear. I dont want to listen to Chet Atkins. I prefer this guy. I would like to know what chords he's playing.

It's Saturday today, I think it's going to be quicker to write it out myself than wait for an answer on here.

Let’s be clear. He doesn’t play like CA, and playing like CA would not get you the sound and feel you seem to want. That track has bass and drum backing, and the combination of the guitar style and the accompaniment has the same bouncy feel as Chet’s approach to music. It’s not chord melody. It’s not any defined style that any of us can cite or explain to you.

Learning to play the way CA played will not get you to what you seem to want. FWIW, he didn’t invent that style - the basic approach is called Travis picking because Merle Travis was the first star to become well known for it. What it offers you is one path to playing the kinds of 2 and 3 note harmonized melody lines you seem to like - just use your fingers that way and don’t use your right thumb at all. The second track I posted has beautiful examples of that. Just ignore the thumbed bass line if you’re happy letting a bass play it. Without a bass line, you’d be closer to the chord melody feel you seem to want, and it won’t have that Chet “boom-chick” bounce” that we all hear in your track.

There is no objective right or wrong. That playing style is certainly unorthodox - I don’t think I’ve ever seen or heard an approach quite like it. We said the same thing about Tuck Andress, Lenny Breau, Bill Frisell, Stanley Jordan, and Charlie Hunter too. It’s not “wrong”, and you’re in good company with many others who play differently from the rest (which is almost all) of us.

When you transcribe it for yourself, you’ll realize how much work identifying and documenting every harmony in it will require. Asking us to do it for you is asking a lot.

[ragman1]

Never probably knows it but Merle Travis only used his thumb and one finger. It's more obvious on this one.

[Ukena]

[...] It's Saturday today, I think it's going to be quicker to write it out myself than wait for an answer on here.

I also think this might be your best bet. Any of us here would have to figure it out for you, since I doubt there is a chart anywhere for his arrangement. And then you might not agree with the result anyway.

It looks as though he is playing it in D; Chet and Merle played it in C.

The song starts on the IV chord, which in this case is a G. He seems to then go to a Gm – I like a C9 there instead. But I would say he sticks pretty closely to the normal chart for this tune, which will get you awfully close to his arrangement. Plus, you have the serious advantage of a video of his playing.

Most chord charts have this tune in the key of F (the original key), so you'll have to transpose it. The iReal book can help you out here...

[grahambop]

It sounds like the guy in the video is using the IReal app for his backing, I recognise the countdown sound. If it helps, these are the chords shown in IReal (I have transposed it to D as in the video).

Bear in mind that what he is playing sometimes departs from these specific chords, at least that’s my impression based on a very quick listen.

[AllanAllen]

Broadly speaking, with respect to playing that kind of chord solo ...

I was looking to see if Allan had recommended this one, but I bought this one when he was posting about it and it's a very good book for the chord soloing kind of thing generally.

It's geared toward swing guitar (the kind of thing Jonathan Stout is doing above)but this rhythmic style and that of Les Paul and others probably has more to do with that kind of style than from the bebop sort of thing or the 6th diminished stuff. Though also the strategies in the book could be used for the 6th diminished stuff with a little creativity. Which is also very fun.

Early Jazz Guitar Chord Soloing - GuitarVivo

It’s my favorite book and also the one I never think to recommend.

[ragman1]

.

Bear in mind that what he is playing sometimes departs from these specific chords

You can say that again. But it won't make any difference, our OP likes what he hears too much!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

our OP likes what he hears too much!

I think that’s fine. And I applaud him for wanting to know how to play like that, even though it has no appeal for me. The problem I see is that he appears to believe that if someone puts a transcription in front of him, he’ll sound just like that despite his own admissions that he can’t identify what’s being played from hearing it and that he finds the fretboard to be far more difficult to navigate than the keyboard. I’m surprised to hear this from someone who’s been playing for so many years. At the very least, I’d have expected him to be able to play on the piano what he hears into that track.

If this were a novice trying to learn, I’d say it’ll come with repetition, practice, and listening. But he’s far from a novice. This suggests to me that he’s either been doing something very wrong or simply doesn’t have the ear (or ear training) and the technical facility to translate what he hears into his own renditions of a given tune.

The exercise of transcribing it should help him grasp it, if he can then make his fingers do what they’ll need to do to turn it into music. But just having a transcription will almost certainly not be enough.

[lawson-stone]

You rarely see this book recommended, but I came across it in my teen years and it got me well grounded in harmonizing melodies. It's heavy on the actual technique and mechanics, but I always find time spent back working in this book to be rewarded.

Seriously, though, you won't hear many people praising it. It's very old-fashioned in its pedagogy, but I swear by it.

[lawson-stone]

I'm not sure anybody is really understating what I was originally asking. Why are we talking about Chet Atkins? The chap in the video is nothing like Chet Atkins, are we talking about the same video?

Everybody seems very keen to tell me all about playing the piano or how they are able to see the guitar fretboard just like I see a piano.

Great. But what chords is he playing in the video? That's all I asked.

Look. Some of the most capable people on this forum have replied to your questions after listening to the clip you posted. If you asked a question, and knowledgable, capable players with a lot of experience replied with references you don't think pertinent, maybe the problem is your limited exposure and understanding. 15 seconds into your clip I thought "modified Chet Atkins approach" as the ball park.

I suggest you drill down a little deeper into the replies and ask not why we don't get it, but why you don't understand.

I don't mean to be obnoxious, but I always find when capable people answer my question in a ways that I find apparently irrelevant, I usually go back and rethink my question.