Any Genuinely Great Jazz Learning Book You Stand Behind?

[pamosmusic]

Alrighty. I recall Ant Law saying that there was a time that he would have 'bebop for breakfast' - that is, play all the bebop heads he knew at the time, close to the number you mention, first thing in the morning.

And I have a piece of paper where I wrote down all the bebop heads you listed on a post here some time ago. I was systematically transcribing them. Probably be an idea to continue with that, and actually learn the damn things by heart. Right now, Donna Lee is the only one I play every day.

I do this, but I also include Monk heads because they’re hybrid-picky for me. Also maybe the same reason. They’re weird but a LOT of rhythmic vocabulary in there to just marinate in.

[James W]

I do this, but I also include Monk heads because they’re hybrid-picky for me. Also maybe the same reason. They’re weird but a LOT of rhythmic vocabulary in there to just marinate in.

Cool. I have transcribed 'Straight, No Chaser' and 'Introspection' (I'm still in the process of figuring out the chords for the latter).

[Christian Miller]

Alrighty. I recall Ant Law saying that there was a time that he would have 'bebop for breakfast' - that is, play all the bebop heads he knew at the time, close to the number you mention, first thing in the morning.

And I have a piece of paper where I wrote down all the bebop heads you listed on a post here some time ago. I was systematically transcribing them. Probably be an idea to continue with that, and actually learn the damn things by heart. Right now, Donna Lee is the only one I play every day.

Yeah Ant’s very thorough, doesn’t surprise me. No one works harder than he does.

A bebop head (or 50) is always a good technical warm up and people call them

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[Tal_175]

There is also something to be said about just sticking to one head for two years. Not just playing it every day but getting to a point where you can play any short segment of the head in the context of any chord anywhere on the fretboard. Getting to a point where you can play a solo on a different tune entirely by connecting ideas from the original head without it being recognizable in any way. I've been doing a version of this and I wish I had practiced this way all along.

[pamosmusic]

There is also something to be said about just sticking to one head for two years. Not just playing it every day but getting to a point where you can play any short segment of the head in the context of any chord anywhere on the fretboard. Getting to a point where you can play a solo on a different tune entirely by connecting ideas from the original head without it being recognizable in any way. I've been doing a version of this and I wish I had practiced this way all along.

I haven’t been doing it for the last year or so but for a few years I played all my bop heads in five positions. It’s intense.

[Christian Miller]

Alrighty. I recall Ant Law saying that there was a time that he would have 'bebop for breakfast' - that is, play all the bebop heads he knew at the time, close to the number you mention, first thing in the morning.

And I have a piece of paper where I wrote down all the bebop heads you listed on a post here some time ago. I was systematically transcribing them. Probably be an idea to continue with that, and actually learn the damn things by heart. Right now, Donna Lee is the only one I play every day.

But what I have in mind is not simply playing through them. I mean take them apart and use them as a basis for lines over changes. Practice them in all keys, vary, mutate, sequence. That’s what I did with Donna Lee for example.

Same with a solo. Make use of the materials. Use everything.


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[James W]

But what I have in mind is not simply playing through them. I mean take them apart and use them as a basis for lines over changes. Practice them in all keys, vary, mutate, sequence. That’s what I did with Donna Lee for example.

Same with a solo. Make use of the materials. Use everything.


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Good ideas, thanks.

[GuyBoden]

Yeah Ant’s very thorough, doesn’t surprise me. No one works harder than he does.

I think Ant Law tunes in 4ths, but a semitone flat.

Eb-Ab-Db-Gb-Cb-Fb

I prefer E-A-D-G-C-F, but he's a fantastic player.

[Christian Miller]

I think Ant Law tunes in 4ths, but a semitone flat.

Eb-Ab-Db-Gb-Cb-Fb

I prefer E-A-D-G-C-F, but he's a fantastic player.

Yes he does

Tuning the guitar sensibly is of course cheating, come at me P4 dweebs… ;-)

I’m sure ant would kill it any tuning. I always forget he uses it tbh because it’s not really something that’s a feature of the music as it sounds.

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[GuyBoden]

I’m sure ant would kill it any tuning. I always forget he uses it tbh because it’s not really something that’s a feature of the music as it sounds.

Yes, what ever your choice of tuning shouldn't matter.

I wish I hadn't been seduced by P4 tuning about 15years ago, because I knew the fingerboard quite well in standard tuning.

I won't change from P4 now, unless I get a Tenor Banjo tuned in 5ths.

[AllanAllen]

Yes, what ever your choice of tuning shouldn't matter.

I wish I hadn't been seduced by P4 tuning about 15years ago, because I knew the fingerboard quite well in standard tuning.

I won't change from P4 now, unless I get a Tenor Banjo tuned in 5ths.

Pretty soon this will be a jazz banjo forum.

[pamosmusic]

Pretty soon this will be a jazz banjo forum.

The forum is what Christian permits it to be

[Christian Miller]

Yes, what ever your choice of tuning shouldn't matter.

I wish I hadn't been seduced by P4 tuning about 15years ago, because I knew the fingerboard quite well in standard tuning.

I won't change from P4 now, unless I get a Tenor Banjo tuned in 5ths.

I think it absolutely matter if it has an obvious musical effect - if it's a very different tuning like P5 (of course Fripp uses that one). I got a Tenor banjo rather than a Plectrum because I liked the way the chords were spaced, quite different from the guitar. Felt like more of a departure. But it is helpful having a uniform tuning, makes it much easier to learn.

On the guitar of course you have tunings like DADGAD, open G - even drop D that have a very specific vibe.

As I understand it a lot of the folk players in Irish music etc to try to bring back into standard what they get from DADGAD after a while because DADGAD has its issues for ensemble playing. Correct me if I'm wrong...

P4 on the other hand is a tuning made for convenience. It doesn't really have a sound that's separate from standard, or at least not as defined.

[GuyBoden]

Pretty soon this will be a jazz banjo forum.

[Doublea A]

I was chatting to a friend of mine who claimed they really couldn't name a Jazz Guitar learning book that they got a lot out of... (I'm specifically not talking about biographies or jazz history books here - specifically a book for learning how to play Jazz or Jazz Guitar)

That got me thinking ... are there any jazz books you used at any point while learning (or even very recently) that you could fully stand behind and recommend as a truly great book for Jazz Guitarists to use - a 'must buy' I suppose? Books that you have used lots and learned lots from.

I've seen many people point to the Charlie Parker Omnibook, as well as books like The Advancing Guitarist; Forward Motion; some of the Joe Pass books as well as the Bert Ligon book on Linear Harmony.

I guess I want to start a discussion on whether books have a place in regular jazzers practice, and if so, what are the 'best' books for you personally !

TVMIA!

The Jody Fisher and Frank Vignola books are good starting points.


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[rpjazzguitar]

Above, I listed a few books I found helpful.

That said, I have the usual shelf or two of books, most of which I did not find helpful. Not, of course, that somebody else couldn't find them helpful.

Not counting beginner/intermediate sorts of things, the most helpful books gave chord progressions, often with diagrams, on standard sorts of changes.

But, what no book could do was teach the way things are supposed to feel. And, without proper feel, well, let me just say, you don't get very far.

I got more from watching some of Reg's videos (youtube reg523 iirc) than I got from any of the books.

[jazzloverfat]

Pretty soon this will be a jazz banjo forum.

[AllanAllen]

Above, I listed a few books I found helpful.

That said, I have the usual shelf or two of books, most of which I did not find helpful. Not, of course, that somebody else couldn't find them helpful.

Not counting beginner/intermediate sorts of things, the most helpful books gave chord progressions, often with diagrams, on standard sorts of changes.

But, what no book could do was teach the way things are supposed to feel. And, without proper feel, well, let me just say, you don't get very far.

I got more from watching some of Reg's videos (youtube reg523 iirc) than I got from any of the books.

That's why advice for beginners is usually 'get a teacher', followed by 'find other people to play jazz with.' Advice that is often ignored while they buy books and try to memorize dozens of scales and hundreds of uncomfortable chord grips. I did the same thing, and having come out the other side of it, getting a teacher and playing piss-poor jazz with some other people would have been more fun and at the same result.

[rlrhett]

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I don’t know that people “ignore” that advice. If you are nineteen and live in a city or college town, no doubt finding people to play with is easy and jazz guitar instructors are part of your school’s staff. If you are middle aged and live outside a major metropolis, finding people who want to play jazz with a forty, fifty, or sixty year old beginner is a fools errand. Jazz guitar is a lonely pursuit for many of us.


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[Christian Miller]

I don’t know that people “ignore” that advice. If you are nineteen and live in a city or college town, no doubt finding people to play with is easy and jazz guitar instructors are part of your school’s staff. If you are middle aged and live outside a major metropolis, finding people who want to play jazz with a forty, fifty, or sixty year old beginner is a fools errand. Jazz guitar is a lonely pursuit for many of us.


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I don’t know what to tell ya….

It’s a wonderful irony of the music that it attracts many introverted people and yet is fundamentally based around social interaction. That has knock on effects on all sorts of hilarious ways even when gaggles of us misfits do get together.

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[AllanAllen]

I don’t know that people “ignore” that advice. If you are nineteen and live in a city or college town, no doubt finding people to play with is easy and jazz guitar instructors are part of your school’s staff. If you are middle aged and live outside a major metropolis, finding people who want to play jazz with a forty, fifty, or sixty year old beginner is a fools errand. Jazz guitar is a lonely pursuit for many of us.


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I’m a 42 year old married man, work a full time desk job, have 2 boys 7 and 9, I live in a town of 1,000 people that is 70 miles south of Chicago and by my own will of not giving up the minute things got hard, I am gigging 4-6 times a month.

I am unexceptional in almost every way and have the same commitments as most people. If I can do this, so can anyone else.

[wolflen]

I am unexceptional in almost every way and have the same commitments as most people. If I can do this, so can anyone else.

While I too feel unexceptional in that I dont have a drop of talent in my being. My early desire to understand how those strange sounding chords
fit together in the music called jazz drove me to study the form. Later I found a teacher and after much continued practice I can play
some of what I heard in my early years of listening.

In the past I subscribed to the "..If I can do it.." school..I realize now..not every one can..the reasons for such are many fold..and that is a long term study in itself.

[AllanAllen]

It seems those who can’t, see some minor inconvenience and blame fate instead of slightly changing their path.

I’m sure I suffer from survivorship bias, but the nature of it makes me ignorant of the bias. Even if I’m aware of the existence of the bias. The mind is a curious thing.

[alltunes]

I’m a 42 year old married man, work a full time desk job, have 2 boys 7 and 9, I live in a town of 1,000 people that is 70 miles south of Chicago and by my own will of not giving up the minute things got hard, I am gigging 4-6 times a month.

I am unexceptional in almost every way and have the same commitments as most people. If I can do this, so can anyone else.

Coming from a similar experience you must have a supportive wife.

[pamosmusic]

I don’t know that people “ignore” that advice. If you are nineteen and live in a city or college town, no doubt finding people to play with is easy and jazz guitar instructors are part of your school’s staff. If you are middle aged and live outside a major metropolis, finding people who want to play jazz with a forty, fifty, or sixty year old beginner is a fools errand. Jazz guitar is a lonely pursuit for many of us.


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Im going to second Allan’s post but also note that I was 16 in a town of 1500 or so … 90 miles south of DC and it was still hard work finding anyone at all to play with.

You’ll never guess who I found. A sixty year old country guitar player with a day job who called the Real Book “The Real Hard Book.” Good thing he didn’t write off finding anyone to play with as a fools errand.

Let’s also maybe note that the nineteen year olds who live in college towns with people to play with and teachers on their college staff are presumably paying tuition for the privilege. So I guess that’s easy in a manner of speaking, but I’m not sure I’d put it that way.