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Good time. And I don't just mean a penchant for pulling a party.
You can be average schlub on guitar but if you have good solid time and don't mind playing the pocket you will get many gigs vs a more technically advanced guitarist who does not have good time. If you have great time and take the time to work up your parts you will be an asset to any group and will get many calls. If your time sucks you are a stumbling block to the whole group and you'll be a last call guy that causes other players to sigh when they hear you are sharing the stage with them.
Get a metronome and work with it. Play along with music that has great time. Pat your thigh or clap your hands to the beat of the music on your radio or just your metronome and learn to subdivide into eights and sixteenths concisely. Slow tempos are generally harder to keep steady so work on fast, medium, slow
Consider: a guy with great timing who messes up his part messes up once and then is already back on track because his internal clock doesn't cease to function.. A guy who has bad time messes up the whole night because he has no internal clock and has to (hopefully) get his cues from someone on the bandstand who does. Not acceptable. If you don't have good time put the guitar down before you hurt someone or someone hurts you and learn how to count to 4 steadily. Learn to recognize when you are getting out of time. Time is the most critical musical skill you can have. Maybe I sound like captain obvious but there are just way too many guys out there these days parading as "artists" but have lousy time.Last edited by DawgBone; 04-07-2025 at 09:14 AM.
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04-06-2025 10:51 PM
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Sure, but listening is about as important (perhaps more), at least if you're playing jazz with others.
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Having good meter means you are listening already. Whether we are talking about jazz or some other kinda music doesn't matter. Bad meter is bad meter.
Originally Posted by MarkL
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Playing with a cat whose time is wandering is like trying to shoot at a moving target. It can be done, but why bother?
I get that unlike in most other musical genres, jazz can have fluid time. But a cat with bad time is fluid when he isn't supposed to be.
I find that foot tapping helps a lot.
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This thread needs Al Haig.
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Dunno. I rather believe that there are a few essential things that has to be pushed to 100%.
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Well, there's no doubt that trying to make music with someone who can't keep time is well nigh impossible.
Why it's being dressed up with fancy words like 'meter' I'm not sure.
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A common beginner Jazz player mistake is being told to hear/clap the 2+4 beats, when the player doesn't even know where the 1+3 beats are.
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And in general that two and four is where the music is felt. I mean ... it's not wrong, but there are so many pulses and little meta rhythms running through it that you miss a lot being fixated on the two and four. I still set the metronome for 2 and 4 sometimes and for a lot of tempos that's where I feel like I'm living. But I was like ............. three years ago old when I ran across the Hal Galper 1 and 3 thing and was like "oh man, that's useful." Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Which brings up maybe another mistake that people (read: me) make with rhythm is to understand it rather than feel it. Not like in a floaty artistic way but literally to put rhythm on your body to get it. The Barry Harris thing about 2 and 4 being the clap or the upper body and the 1 and 3 being the feet or the lower body makes so much sense. You have to understand rhythm to decode a written rhythm you haven't encountered before but you can't play it by understanding it.
That's probably true of a lot of other music stuff, but double for rhythm.
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Meter is a fancy word or you are just a man who loves his yardstick? Originally Posted by ragman1
LOL
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Hooray! We agree. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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And not even just jazz either. I definitely rate listening as #1. I've played with too many people who don't "get" the idea of the whole being greater than the sum of it's parts... they just concentrate on themselves being "great." Originally Posted by MarkL
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It's not a fancy word. It's just the wrong term. Meter refers to time signature. What does having a good time signature mean? It can mean having the ability to follow the form without adding and dropping beats. Granted that's an important and often lacking skill in beginners. But I suspect what you mean is having good a time feel (ie not rushing or lagging unintentionally and having a good groove.). Originally Posted by DawgBone
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Got it. I am not a technical oriented mind (surprise, lol). I'll modify thread OP. Thanks. Originally Posted by Tal_175
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So how will it sound if everyone knows the tune and listens and is sensitive to what the other musicians are playing but only half of the band is in time.
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I think that's a contradiction. If everyone is listening and is sensitive to what everyone else is playing, they will be conscious of their timing. Originally Posted by Scorch
In a group everyone has their own little piece of the puzzle, and you're hearing your piece in conjunction with the other parts. So you will be conscious of how you fit in timing wise (and pitch wise, because you don't want to hog the same part of the spectrum as someone else). Timing and listening to eachother is all part of the same thing.
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If I had to pick one thing as more important than any other for the purpose of getting gigs, it would be time feel.
If your time is good, you're eligible for gigs that don't require knowing a lot of chords, don't require huge ears and don't require a lot of chops. I saw a band like that this weekend. Great groove with otherwise relatively simple parts.
OTOH, if you want to play jazz at a pro or even semi-pro level, then you need, among other things, big ears. You have to be able to hear harmony at a high level. Several other planets have to line up or it won't be great jazz.
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Man, the guy who started this thread should start a No-Holds-Barred Cage Match with the guy who started the "Rhythm Is Not The Most Important Thing In Music!" thread...best two out of three falls wins. I'll bring the popcorn.
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The first rule about time is: You don't talk about time.
U just have it.
And if not, go back to the shed and practice.
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Melody and harmony are dependent on time feel, a given* but subject to improvement.
Time feel is dependent on listening and listening - foundational to all jazz improvement.
*True story....
DRUMMER: < tapping his kit after setting up >
KEYBOARD: What are you doing?
DRUMMER: I'm trying to find my rhythm.
KEYBOARD: You're a drummer; you're supposed to bring that with you!
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Time and feel, yes! Just do not tap your foot while performing. This hurts your timing and is amateur hour for performing musicians regardless of genre (drummers excluded).
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IMO the notion that there is one thing which is most important is a fallacy.
If you have a great inner metronome but don't know tunes you won't keep the gig.
If you know hundreds of tunes but you don't show up on time you won't keep the gig.
If you show up on time but don't listen to the other people on the stand you won't keep the gig.
If you listen like a monster but don't read well enough to avoid wasting peoples' time you won't keep the gig.
I don't claim to have most of those skills but it doesn't matter anyway.
If (unlike me) you're a solid player but (like me) you can't keep your inner asshole in check you won't keep the gig.
A lot of the time the gig goes to players who are an easy hang.
And that is as it should be.
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Joe Pass and Bucky Pizzarelli both tapped their feet (among many others). Does this make them amateurs? And you are such a big time pro to make such a pronouncement? Originally Posted by Donnd
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I've noticed that a lot of horn players don't tap in big band. Originally Posted by Donnd
I have seen many truly great players who always tap. And, who may tap differently than other players playing the same song together.
If you can play well without tapping, great. If you find it easier to play well while tapping, don't sell all your stuff and take up golf. You're not alone.
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Classic Marbin, in that I hate it and also he's also sort of right. Originally Posted by Donnd
(yes, I agree lots of great players tap feet and the title of this video is annoying. I do like the part in the video about circular movement, that's the part that feels right.)
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