Just the melody.

[ragman1]

If you're going to play any tune you need, obviously, to be fluent in the melody. Not just the notes on the page but able to embellish it slightly to avoid sounding like a machine.

But you also have to know how to improvise effectively when it's solo time. Which means really knowing the changes and the notes for that. So, really, we're talking about knowing the whole thing, not just a part of it. But that's the whole purpose and point of learning the music, surely?

And don't call you Shirley.

[pamosmusic]

If you're going to play any tune you need, obviously, to be fluent in the melody. Not just the notes on the page but able to embellish it slightly to avoid sounding like a machine.

But you also have to know how to improvise effectively when it's solo time. Which means really knowing the changes and the notes for that. So, really, we're talking about knowing the whole thing, not just a part of it. But that's the whole purpose and point of learning the music, surely?

And don't call you Shirley.

Yeah but that’s an argument for practicing both, not for practicing the melody less.

Show of hands, who spent as much time playing the melody to Bye Bye Blackbird as they spent playing the changes or working on lines that would work on the changes?

[mr. beaumont]

So it's about the interpretation of the melody?
or is it more about ear training?

It's honestly whatever it needs to be for anybody. For some, it might be getting it under their fingers consistently...for others, more about expression. Might differ from day to day, tune to tune.

I see it as kind of a zen like thing, which I really like.

[ragman1]

Show of hands, who spent as much time playing the melody to Bye Bye Blackbird as they spent playing the changes or working on lines that would work on the changes?

Me. I never even consider the other stuff till I get the melody. For one thing, having just played the melody will shape the solo, right?

(But, since I do my own backings, I need to play the changes first usually).

[pamosmusic]

Me. I never even consider the other stuff till I get the melody. For one thing, having just played the melody will shape the solo, right?

(But, since I do my own backings, I play the changes first usually).

Skeptical face.

So that’s how much time?

[ragman1]

Skeptical about what?

[pamosmusic]

Skeptical about what?

That you play the melody as much as you do the changes.

Im curious how much time that is?

[ragman1]

So that’s how much time?

I don't care, however long it takes.

Actually, I've left out something to do first, which is listen to various versions of it to really get the feel of it. I don't just plunge into doing something I don't know anything about.

If you've heard the tune then you've got an idea of the tempo and mood of it. The changes aren't a problem, I just put them down. Then I can start getting the hang of the melody. When that's done I work on the other stuff.

I always do it that way.

[AllanAllen]

I don't think I have the attention span to play the 'Bye Bye Blackbird' melody for 30mins.

You would have less clams if you did.

[pamosmusic]

I don't care, however long it takes.

Actually, I've left out something to do first, which is listen to various versions of it to really get the feel of it. I don't just plunge into doing something I don't know anything about.

I guess my point is — either you don’t work on the melody much, or you do work on the melody a lot, in which case I’m not sure why anyone would be skeptical of spending thirty minutes on a melody before recording it.

[GuyBoden]

Show of hands, who spent as much time playing the melody to Bye Bye Blackbird as they spent playing the changes or working on lines that would work on the changes?

[AllanAllen]

Yeah but that’s an argument for practicing both, not for practicing the melody less.

Show of hands, who spent as much time playing the melody to Bye Bye Blackbird as they spent playing the changes or working on lines that would work on the changes?

Bye Bye Blackbird just happens to be the first melody I took around the 12 keys.

[ragman1]

I guess my point is — either you don’t work on the melody much, or you do work on the melody a lot, in which case I’m not sure why anyone would be skeptical of spending thirty minutes on a melody before recording it.

I never said I was sceptical of working on it, either for 30 minutes or more. I can sight read it generally but that's not the same as getting it under the fingers.

I asked Jeff about it because he said 'once you know it'. So you're not spending 30 minutes to get to know it! Actually I'd say it takes a lot longer than 30 minutes to get it under the fingers to any fluent degree.

It's not a race. I don't care how long it takes. Days if necessary. The brain needs time to assimilate it.

[mr. beaumont]

Yeah, could be different for every tune. You might be able to read on first pass, or it might be tricky and take a few sessions to even get under your fingers. Or it might be a tune you decide to learn by ear.

It'll be different every tune for every person.

[ragman1]

You would have less clams if you did.

True, but it's also a fact that switching on the record button changes things too. We might feel okay sitting on the sofa but when that button goes down something else happens, it's a different world.

[pamosmusic]

True, but it's also a fact that switching on the record button changes things too. We might feel okay sitting on the sofa but when that button goes down something else happens, it's a different world.

Nah man. Best remedy for performance anxiety is to have your stuff together.

[ragman1]

I don't have performance anxiety.

[GuyBoden]

Nah man. Best remedy for performance anxiety is to have your stuff together.

'Best remedy for performance anxiety' is to play live more often...............

And, 'have your stuff together.'

[ragman1]

That helps. Personally I don't perform stuff I don't know properly, I can't see the point.

But I can't pretend that large audiences and dead, expectant silence isn't horrible, it is. Give me a band and a hot dive every time.

[pamosmusic]

I don't have performance anxiety.

Ragman, you are a hero among men and a role model for us all, so let’s just assume that all advice given on this forum is only applicable to the mortals like myself

[ragman1]

It's applicable to absolutely everybody. What separates the gods from the rest is that the gods do their homework thoroughly, as stated. Slap-dash performers are like bad drivers, they cause accidents.

[GuyBoden]

Jazz guitar is a hobby for the majority of people on this forum, so enjoyment is probably the main priority.

30mins of playing a melody you enjoy.

[kris]

You need to know the melody to improvise... and what about 12-bar blues?
Do blues melodies inspire improvisation?
I'm not sure about that.
I heard a lot of improvisation in the form of jazz blues. The solos were just very good.
They would probably fit any blues tune.
Or maybe the chord changes are more important than the melody?
What I mean here is the art of improvisation.

[pamosmusic]

You need to know the melody to improvise... and what about 12-bar blues?
Do blues melodies inspire improvisation?
I'm not sure about that.
I heard a lot of improvisation in the form of jazz blues. The solos were just very good.
They would probably fit any blues tune.
Or maybe the chord changes are more important than the melody?
What I mean here is the art of improvisation.

Yeah for sure you do.

A bebop tune is a bit of a different animal, as Jeff said, but still being able to use the melody is going to make it more cohesive, and you hear people quote from one tune over another all the time.

And yeah something like Sandu or Bags Groove or Straight No Chaser, why not?

[Mick-7]

Call me a straw boss but I'd say no backing track allowed to set your rhythm and tempo. I'm packing my bags and going to Rubato, I hear the weather is fine there this time of year.

If you're going to play any tune you need, obviously, to be fluent in the melody. Not just the notes on the page but able to embellish it slightly to avoid sounding like a machine.

But you also have to know how to improvise effectively when it's solo time. Which means really knowing the changes and the notes for that. So, really, we're talking about knowing the whole thing, not just a part of it.

One can improvise on the melody of a song without knowing its chord changes, in fact it's harder to do that well.