Does anybody really play bebop these days?

[mr. beaumont]

I'd argue no...I think bebop, that word, is as much a time and a place as it is a style. Bebop is a certain group of people. Bebop was made to keep the squares out. Nobody today can play bebop, we weren't there. We weren't part of the club. Lots of great living players weren't either.

People today play bop, or bop influenced music. It's an important distinction, I think, not just semantics. Thoughts?

[Tal_175]

Yes, I think the influence of swing jazz and even Dixieland jazz is more recognizable in the music of the original bebop gang, Charlie Parker et al., than in the "straight ahead" jazz that continued the tradition. There is that upbeat, happy vibe about Charlie Parker's music that became more solemn and cerebral later on. This is how I hear their music.

[kris]

I'm not sure if playing be-bop era standards is really playing be-bop.
Probably not.

[Christian Miller]

I'd argue no...I think bebop, that word, is as much a time and a place as it is a style. Bebop is a certain group of people. Bebop was made to keep the squares out. Nobody today can play bebop, we weren't there. We weren't part of the club. Lots of great living players weren't either.

People today play bop, or bop influenced music. It's an important distinction, I think, not just semantics. Thoughts?

if you can play bebop it isn’t really bebop?

I wouldn’t want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member…

[Christian Miller]

By the same logic no one really plays any historical style because by the time it’s taught it’s no longer the thing it was. Which I think is true.

[mr. beaumont]

if you can play bebop it isn’t really bebop?

…

Well, that's it. You can't play bebop. You can only play bop influenced music. Bebop existed in a place and time that we weren't.

[mr. beaumont]

By the same logic no one really plays any historical style because by the time it’s taught it’s no longer the thing it was. Which I think is true.

Right...you can play a bebop tune. But it's not bebop.

Just like I can drop acid, but it's not an Acid Test. Or something.

[AllanAllen]

I think it's semantics, nitpicking, too many gummies, whatever you want to call it, it doesn't matter.

[John A.]

Well, that's it. You can't play bebop. You can only play bop influenced music. Bebop existed in a place and time that we weren't.

Meh. You can't play Beethoven quartets because you're not a Viennese court musician. You can't play Klezmer because you're not a pre-war Lower East Side Jew. You can't play Piedmont blues because you're not a blind troubadour in the Jim Crow South. You can't act in Othello because you're not living in Jacobean England, etc., etc. OK, so in some sense it's true because it's impossible to reproduce a bygone cultural milieu or a sense of how radically innovative its arts may have been, but that doesn't mean you're not doing it. It just means you're you you now, not them then, and what you do expresses you and what's happening now, which was the point of what they were doing then.

[mr. beaumont]

Ok...so...today's pros...who says they play bebop?

And I think some folks are missing my point about how bebop was a thing that was a thing, called itself, at the time. It was a scene.

Beethoven string quartets aren't a scene.

[JazzIsGood]

I'd say Pasquale plays bebop. Seems like a real bebop purist.

[mr. beaumont]

I'd say Pasquale plays bebop. Seems like a real bebop purist.

But would he say that?

I'm being a bit of a shitstarter here, but I find this truly interesting. I've really never heard a current player say they play bebop. Bop, definitely. But not bebop.

And I don't think bop is just short for bebop.

[AllanAllen]

And I don't think bop is just short for bebop.

In the interest of shit starting, I thought it was…

[mr. beaumont]

In the interest of shit starting, I thought it was…

Bop, to me, encompasses hard bop too...which is not the same as bebop.

[Litterick]

In the interest of stopping, I would say this thread shows a valid difference of opinion, based on the definition of a word. As such, it cannot be resolved.

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

Ok...so...today's pros...who says they play bebop?

And I think some folks are missing my point about how bebop was a thing that was a thing, called itself, at the time. It was a scene.

Beethoven string quartets aren't a scene.

Bebop tunes? Not too often. Miles saw to that. But bebop language - sure. Just a few years ago Christian McBride gave a little A/B demo of bebop language vs. "modern" (which used to mean the same thing, but never mind). His point was that they aren't that far apart.

I think that perhaps some of the key ingredients are developing skill with chromatics in a Parker like manner, and playing skillfully over fast harmonic rhythms. After that, one can move forward! Or not at all, or just skip it. It's a free country.

[AllanAllen]

I'm honestly surprised google agrees with me.

[Alter]

To me the Criss Cross Jazz catalog is the closest one gets with current artists. I love listening to their albums.

Still prefer the original music from 70 years back though.. As much as I love big band music, Bebop propelled Jazz and Jazz language so much, and it helped to elevate it from entertainment and dance music to art. Can't really separate music and its energy from the era..

[Kirk Garrett]

I'd argue no...I think bebop, that word, is as much a time and a place as it is a style. Bebop is a certain group of people. Bebop was made to keep the squares out. Nobody today can play bebop, we weren't there. We weren't part of the club. Lots of great living players weren't either.

People today play bop, or bop influenced music. It's an important distinction, I think, not just semantics. Thoughts?

Interesting. You are a painter; is there an analogy to abstract expressionism, perhaps?

[mr. beaumont]

Interesting. You are a painter; is there an analogy to abstract expressionism, perhaps?

Yeah, maybe. Or maybe more like dada...something that was also so in the moment but also so localized...

I agree, if we define the word differently then its a senseless conversation, but that's not the part I find most interesting...the part that fascinated me is that people don't use the word really, when referring to what they play. There's like some unwritten reverence...like, if bebop was religion, you could be a disciple, but not one of the Apostles...I can play bebop lines, but it's not bebop. Maybe theres bebop and Bebop...capital B. Ok, im getting silly.

I think it's cool though. It's more than just a style of music.

[ragman1]

I've been saying that for ages here. Half the posters on this thread argued against me. Perhaps it's the way I tell 'em :-)

[John A.]

Ok...so...today's pros...who says they play bebop?

And I think some folks are missing my point about how bebop was a thing that was a thing, called itself, at the time. It was a scene.

Beethoven string quartets aren't a scene.

They were.

[John A.]

Bop, to me, encompasses hard bop too...which is not the same as bebop.

Could just be the circles I run in l, but I’ve never understood it that way.

Player 1: “Hey guys, how about bop head?"
Player2:"You mean like Moanin’ or Jeanine?"

Player 1 leaves the room, never to return.

[mr. beaumont]

Could just be the circles I run in l, but I’ve never understood it that way.

Player 1: “Hey guys, how about bop head?"
Player2:"You mean like Moanin’ or Jeanine?"

Player 1 leaves the room, never to return.

Oooh, but Ill push back here...agreed yes, a "bop head" is certainly a bebop tune. In fact I'd argue the only music that ever gets called a "head" over a "tune" is bebop.

But I knew a guy in jazz radio who, if you asked him what his favorite music was, he'd tell you "oh, im a bopper." And to him, that meant Hank Mobley as much as Charlie Parker.

[sgcim]

I just call it mainstream jazz if it swings and if it don't swing I call it "the other stuff'.