Does anybody really play bebop these days?

[Kirk Garrett]

Listening to Charlie Parker should be compulsory for all wouldbe Jazzers. To my ears, it's the DNA of all small group Jazz that came after.

I'm still listening and learning from Charlie Parker and always will be.

That’s like reading or attending Shakespeare plays. Arguably a must for any dramatist or poet. The whole world still produces these plays on the stage and in cinema…but we are not remotely capable of creating new ones.


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[Tal_175]

I know of circles of musicians in London, New York, Paris and the Netherlands that would fit that description.

Yeah, I can see that.

[David B]

That's true. But my understanding of the original post is, mr. beaumont is asking if there are musicians who play bebop in a more pure, preservationist way like in the gypsy jazz tradition. I think it's hard to say that even for the old school players like Bruce Forman.

I know of circles of musicians in London, New York, Paris and the Netherlands that would fit that description. Many of the names that immediately come to mind were around Barry Harris, either in New York or during his regular visits to Europe.

In New York, that list would include musicians like Chris Byars, Sacha Perry, Zaid Nasser, John Mosca, Stefano Doglioni, Ari Roland, Keith Balla, Stefan Schatz, Richard Clements.

[GuyBoden]

but we are not remotely capable of creating new ones.

Yes, listen, learn, assimilate, imitate, innovate, then create your own original art.

"Standing on the shoulders of Giants" or "Standing on the toes of Giants", depending on your ability.

[Christian Miller]

That's true. But my understanding of the original post is, mr. beaumont is asking if there are musicians who play bebop in a more pure, preservationist way like in the gypsy jazz tradition. I think it's hard to say that even for the old school players like Bruce Forman.

yes there’s loads; they don’t tend to be super well known internationally, but loads in NY and quite a few in London too.

[mr. beaumont]

That's true. But my understanding of the original post is, mr. beaumont is asking if there are musicians who play bebop in a more pure, preservationist way like in the gypsy jazz tradition. I think it's hard to say that even for the old school players like Bruce Forman.

Nah, I don't know...I guess I'm not explaining myself well enough.

So the way I see it...I don't even think the guys who played bebop--the inventors--really called it that, right? It was just their own thing. The name wasn't important then. It was a club, a small group of people, a short period of time...and it changed everything about this music we love. Everything that came after (assuming it wasn't a throwback to before) is because of this phenomenon. It was this little, pure, beautiful, artistic thing...these guys were getting bored with the commercialization, essentially, of what they did...so they did something new. Something only they could do. It was DIY. It was punk before punk. It was counterculture. I hear the word bebop now and it's that time, and that place. Did these players know what they were doing was going to change everything? I doubt it. But it did. Some say it "ruined" jazz. Lol.

So yeah, I can play a bebop lick. I can play a bebop head. But play bebop? Nah. That existed in the air, and then it was gone. But what it left us...wow. What it left us.

[Christian Miller]

does Django have anything to do with be-bop?

later on for sure

I love hearing him with a bop rhythm section, even though his dialect is decidedly Django.

[Christian Miller]

I think we should go back to calling it Rebop

[mr. beaumont]

I think we should go back to calling it Rebop

Bip Bap, or whatever Monk said the original title was...

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

Nah, I don't know...I guess I'm not explaining myself well enough.

So the way I see it...I don't even think the guys who played bebop--the inventors--really called it that, right? It was just their own thing. The name wasn't important then. It was a club, a small group of people, a short period of time...and it changed everything about this music we love. Everything that came after (assuming it wasn't a throwback to before) is because of this phenomenon. It was this little, pure, beautiful, artistic thing...these guys were getting bored with the commercialization, essentially, of what they did...so they did something new. Something only they could do. It was DIY. It was punk before punk. It was counterculture. I hear the word bebop now and it's that time, and that place. Did these players know what they were doing was going to change everything? I doubt it. But it did. Some say it "ruined" jazz. Lol.

So yeah, I can play a bebop lick. I can play a bebop head. But play bebop? Nah. That existed in the air, and then it was gone. But what it left us...wow. What it left us.

The next time you hear the last two notes of a jazz phrase go "da-dut" (or, be-bop!), you'll know it ain't gone, lol. You may hear it come right out of your own two hands - today.

[Kirk Garrett]

Yes, listen, learn, assimilate, imitate, innovate, then create your own original art.

"Standing on the shoulders of Giants" or "Standing on the toes of Giants", depending on your ability.

New plays, yes. New Elizabethan ones, no. They would only be a pastiche.


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[Kirk Garrett]

later on for sure

I love hearing him with a bop rhythm section, even though his dialect is decidedly Django.

I really like Django’s last stuff, on electric guitar. Is it boppy?




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[RLetson]

I suppose if bebop is gone, I can't be hep. But if bop is possible, can I be hip? Or does that already age me out of whatever has replaced "hip?" (Sick? Dope?) What do I know--I'm Old, along with numerous other categorical disqualifications.

And Django was unmistakeably reacting to bop or whatever the Europeans were calling that twitchy American stuff back then.

Vout-o-Reenee, y'all.

[Christian Miller]

I really like Django’s last stuff, on electric guitar. Is it boppy?




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It’s boppier than early stuff directly influenced by bebop. The rhythm section is also bop influenced. Listen to the splashy ride cymbal, walking bass. There’s still rhythm guitar here, but it’s going that way.

I think for people who don’t listen to prewar jazz it can be hard to guage how much Parker influenced absolutely everyone. We all still live in his shadow pretty much. People might think they are playing fusion, post-modal whatever, but they are still using the rhythmic vocabulary of Parker. It goes before everything.

And the rhythm section too…. hear a ride cymbal? That’s bop. Hear a bass walking smoothly in four? That’s bop.

[John A.]

It’s boppier than early stuff directly influenced by bebop. The rhythm section is also bop influenced. Listen to the splashy ride cymbal, walking bass. There’s still rhythm guitar here, but it’s going that way.

I think for people who don’t listen to prewar jazz it can be hard to guage how much Parker influenced absolutely everyone. We all still live in his shadow pretty much. People might think they are playing fusion, post-modal whatever, but they are still using the rhythmic vocabulary of Parker. It goes before everything.

And the rhythm section too…. hear a ride cymbal? That’s bop. Hear a bass walking smoothly in four? That’s bop.

Much the same could be said of Kenny Clark.

[vintagelove]

You're perhaps overthinking it.


This is what happens when you only play rhythm guitar for a month. Very dangerous.

[mr. beaumont]

Nah, I've got a short attention span. I'm physically incapable of overthinking anything. Look, a squirrel!

[Christian Miller]

Much the same could be said of Kenny Clark.

Exactly.

TBH - I have heard some dissenting accounts. I think Gene Krupa recalled Zutty Singleton riding the cymbal as early as the 20s (IIRC) but a purpose built sustaining ride cymbal didn't really appear until the late 30s earliest.

[StuartF]

I'd argue no...I think bebop, that word, is as much a time and a place as it is a style. Bebop is a certain group of people. Bebop was made to keep the squares out. Nobody today can play bebop, we weren't there. We weren't part of the club. Lots of great living players weren't either.

People today play bop, or bop influenced music. It's an important distinction, I think, not just semantics. Thoughts?

Fascinating idea.

Bebop might be like Beat or Noir: artistic styles with names that reflect the whole culture in which they were birthed.

No matter how hard you try, you'll never write Beat poetry or the next On the Road. For that matter, unless you've read On the Road in the last few months, you probably can't even describe "Beat."

You could make a movie in Black & White, with super high contrast, backlit cigarette smoke, and clipped, machine-gun dialog, but it won't be "Noir." At least, not un-ironic Noir.

And you could play all of the 16th notes there are, but without the suits, skinny ties, Lucky Strikes, Dewar's, cocaine, thigh-high slit dresses, and an odd postwar combination of depression and optimism, maybe it isn't Bebop.

[PMB]

So yeah, I can play a bebop lick. I can play a bebop head. But play bebop? Nah. That existed in the air, and then it was gone.

"I like to think of jazz as a verb, not a noun. It's process, a way of thinking, not a result" (Pat Metheny).

[grahambop]

Much the same could be said of Kenny Clark.

yes playing bebop was hazardous because he kept dropping bombs.

[Christian Miller]

yes playing bebop was hazardous because he kept dropping bombs.

Badoom tsss

[grahambop]

he probably did that too.

[Lionelsax]

I would say everyone and no one.
Everyone : you can't ignore it.
One day someone asked me what I was listening to.
I said I liked cool players, and they said no one were cool but all were boppers.
No one : they all died !

Every respectable player has got a bop culture.

[kris]

Is there any jazz club where musicians only play be-bop?