Difficulty getting into Jazz Guitar, despite playing it.

[teeps]

As far as music where I focus on the role of the guitar rock/fusion are the genres. In solo instrument classic music the piano is my preference - and of course Evelyn Glennie on anything. When it comes to jazz my preference at the momemnt is bass. Upright or electric.
But I like to play the so called standards on guitar.

[jameslovestal]

As far as music where I focus on the role of the guitar rock/fusion are the genres. In solo instrument classic music the piano is my preference - and of course Evelyn Glennie on anything. When it comes to jazz my preference at the momemnt is bass. Upright or electric.
But I like to play the so called standards on guitar.

So you're saying that when you listen to jazz (e.g. a quartet) you listen mostly to the bass player and the most interesting part for you is the bass solo?

[teeps]

So you're saying that when you listen to jazz (e.g. a quartet) you listen mostly to the bass player and the most interesting part for you is the bass solo?

Well, not exactly what I mean, but almost.I really appreciate music where the bass is allowed to come forward as a melodic instrument, especially so in a jazz or jazz inspired musical context. So this affects my choice in what I listen to. But of course it depends on the band, and the music genre. In the context of the thead the relevance is that what I play differs from what I listen to. If that makes sense ...

[AllanAllen]

Well, not exactly what I mean, but almost.I really appreciate music where the bass is allowed to come forward as a melodic instrument, especially so in a jazz or jazz inspired musical context. So this affects my choice in what I listen to. But of course it depends on the band, and the music genre. In the context of the thead the relevance is that what I play differs from what I listen to. If that makes sense ...

You'll like this then. Lots of bass fiddle.

[pauln]

Despite having played jazz on guitar for almost 20 years I think something like 4 or 5% of my entire listening consists music with guitar players. I feel like I should be listening/studying more guitar players but I just don't really find a lot of it all that stimulating. Saxophone and piano have been mostly what I really like listening to. Maybe it's more just the music/groups I like just didn't have guitar. Meh... just wondering if this is common with guitar players or musicians in general.

Common with me... all instruments hold the problem of being " 'y ", as in, the guitar can sound "guitary". Of course that is stressed when the instrument is part of commercial music, etc., but for a guitarist it can be maybe not quite a dead end, but a path that limits one's overall musical sense; at least I think so.

If I listen to too much jazz guitar, my musical mind gets congested. My playing is already naturally bombarded with ideas, the well is never dry. I think a large part of that congestion is rejecting the "guitary" stuff (in the sense that consistently Charlie, Django, and Wes avoid sounding so). Most of my ideas these days come from listening to trumpet players, old Miles.

We know the path to learning some facility on the guitar is one thing; the path back undoing the "guitary" sound is different and I think one has to eventually somewhat step away from guitar immersion.

[christianm77]

one can get a very fat sound playing straight ahead jazz.

fuhlaaannnngggge!!!!!!!!!!

[lawson-stone]

I guess my problem then, and the thing that's holding me back, is that I just crazy-love the guitar. I dream about it. When I'm repairing fences, building stone walls in my pasture, stacking bales of hay, whatever, I have guitar music playing in my mind.

Is it okay to unashamedly love the guitar or does that disqualify me as a jazz musician? It almost seems like it's "hip" for guitarists to dislike their chosen instrument. I don't care. I love this thing. It'll be the death of me, or insanity, but I love it. God help me, I love it.

[jameslovestal]

Well, not exactly what I mean, but almost.I really appreciate music where the bass is allowed to come forward as a melodic instrument, especially so in a jazz or jazz inspired musical context. So this affects my choice in what I listen to. But of course it depends on the band, and the music genre. In the context of the thead the relevance is that what I play differs from what I listen to. If that makes sense ...

Thanks for the feedback. I really enjoy hearing a fine bass player live and up close where I can really see what they are doing and really get the FEEL for the low-end they are carrying. E.g. a guitar and bass duo or piano and bass; I.e. no more than 1 or 2 other instruments.

With recordings, I'm less of a fan, but there are some duos or trios where the bass is fully a partner instead of just keeping-time that I enjoy. E.g. NHOP and Catherine, The Poll Winners , etc...

[Litterick]

[vsaumarez]

I don't think it's unusual to listen more to other instruments than the one you play. In fact, it is probably a good idea because other instruments may open up possibilities you didn't consider on the guitar. On the other hand, being fully conversant with the range of the guitar, ie playing guitaristically, means you become thoroughly familiar with and hopefully competent at playing it. When I listened to a lot to jazz (many moons ago), it was exclusively to guitarists. I wanted to know what was possible on the guitar. I wanted to sound like a guitar player, not like a guitar player imitating a saxophone player. But that is just me. When there weren't many jazz guitarists around, I suppose you had to listen to other instruments. But then that space was filled by so many amazing players that the guitar won a spot in the jazz limelight. Now, nobody ignores us.

[arielcee]

I guess one reason I can really dig Grant Green is he just does what he does. It doesn't sound pretentious, doesn't do anything but make good music. At least to my ears. It seems like so many guitar players are trying to do fancy, flashy, complex stuff which can be cool but for me it loses some of the music aspect. Grant can get boring too, but he sticks to his guns and stands out in the end.

[Marcel_A]

The reason i started playing guitar was not jazz. The reason I like jazz, was not the guitar.
If i look at my favourite jazz-musicians there is one guitar-player that stands out: Pat Metheny. And that is because of his outstanding capabilities as a guitar-player, but especially because he writes great music. With or without the guitar.
Among my favourite jazz-musicians are sax players, pianists, trumpet players. Brecker, Corea, Davis, Snarky Puppy, Hancock, Terence Blanchard, Kamasi Washington, Tomasz Sta?ko to name a few.

[grahambop]

Everybody secretly wants to be a guitarist.

[grahambop]

Elvin Jones couldn’t keep his hands off the guitar, here he is playing it:

[grahambop]

Milt Jackson had a go on the guitar too:

[2bornot2bop]

Let's face it, when it comes to playing or listening to an instrument, the piano is limitless. It's the cats meow. And it never gets boring. Or, Freddie Hubbard on Flugel, or Dexter Gordon on sax, who never runs out of ideas.

[lawson-stone]

Let's face it, when it comes to playing or listening to an instrument, the piano is limitless. It's the cats meow. And it never gets boring. Or, Freddie Hubbard on Flugel, or Dexter Gordon on sax, who never runs out of ideas.

Actually I do find the piano boring, precisely because it is so "limitless." 88 keys, 10 fingers, absolutely regular geometry, no responsibility for primary sound and tone production... to me that adds up to boring. The piano has exercised a tyranny over western music that privileges the large, the loud, and virtuosic physicality. The piano sucks up all the air in the room.

[2bornot2bop]

Actually I do find the piano boring, precisely because it is so "limitless." 88 keys, 10 fingers, absolutely regular geometry, no responsibility for primary sound and tone production... to me that adds up to boring. The piano has exercised a tyranny over western music that privileges the large, the loud, and virtuosic physicality. The piano sucks up all the air in the room.

So you don't like piano? No Oscar Peterson, Keith Jarrett, Gene Harris, or even Ahmad Jamal? Nothing? You don't own a single piano recording? Playing with all 10 fingers requires more dexterity than playing with four.

[2bornot2bop]

Despite having played jazz on guitar for almost 20 years I think something like 4 or 5% of my entire listening consists music with guitar players. I feel like I should be listening/studying more guitar players but I just don't really find a lot of it all that stimulating. Saxophone and piano have been mostly what I really like listening to. Maybe it's more just the music/groups I like just didn't have guitar. Meh... just wondering if this is common with guitar players or musicians in general.

Let's face it, when you acknowledge preferring piano or saxophone to guitar on a guitar forum, some will go to war to defend the guitar. I suppose that's only natural. But I find it very odd that very few here play anything but guitar. The beauty of music is it's wonderful to play it on any instrument. Whether it's flugelhorn, or tenor, or the piano, some of the finest recordings ever are on the piano. So yes, I can see where you find guitar recordings that aren't from the golden age, meh.

[Matt Milton]

no responsibility for primary sound and tone production

How hard you hit a key hugely affects the tone produced, not just the volume. Glenn Gould, Ellis Larkins and Martial Solal all spring to mind as wizards who seem to wring an uncanny amount of timbral variation out of those keys.

[wintermoon]

How hard you hit a key hugely affects the tone produced, not just the volume. Glenn Gould, Ellis Larkins and Martial Solal all spring to mind as wizards who seem to wring an uncanny amount of timbral variation out of those keys.

those 3 are criminally underappreciated today, I especially have a soft spot for Larkins, what a beautiful player.

[lawson-stone]

So you don't like piano? No Oscar Peterson, Keith Jarrett, Gene Harris, or even Ahmad Jamal? Nothing? You don't own a single piano recording? Playing with all 10 fingers requires more dexterity than playing with four.

I'm not much of a fan of piano. Louder, faster seems to be the theme. Like trumpet players: High Loud Fast. I do have recordings of pianists, usually comping for guitarists ;-)

I tire of piano after about 15 minutes. Peterson is astounding. But after 10 minutes you've heard all he's got because he put it all out there in the first tune. He uses his entire vocabulary on every single chorus because the piano invites it. Maybe I like Bill Evans more.

So no, I don't like piano enough to spend a lot of time listening to piano-centric music.

If it's blasphemy, then stone me.

[lawson-stone]

Let's face it, when you acknowledge preferring piano or saxophone to guitar on a guitar forum, some will go to war to defend the guitar. I suppose that's only natural. But I find it very odd that very few here play anything but guitar. The beauty of music is it's wonderful to play it on any instrument. Whether it's flugelhorn, or tenor, or the piano, some of the finest recordings ever are on the piano. So yes, I can see where you find guitar recordings that aren't from the golden age, meh.

A lot of people do not have time or inclination to learn lots of instruments. I admire people who can play lots of instruments. But that's not me. If I wanted to play piano, I'd take lessons. But I don't want to. The woods are full of pianists, all of whom play too loud in the ensemble, play to much, double the melody for others who don't need it, and consume all the harmonic space. They suck up all the air.

And yes, this is a GUITAR forum, so naturally we generally prefer the guitar. I certainly do. I also think it's pathological to devote lots of time and energy to one instrument and then go around saying one really doesn't care much for that instrument and really would rather be playing some other instrument.

I find pianists to be some of the most technically advanced, but musically messed up people. They think the ensemble revolves around them. Like the drunk uncle at thanksgiving who won't stop talking.

[Marcel_A]

But after 10 minutes you've heard all he's got because he put it all out there in the first tune. He uses his entire vocabulary on every single chorus because the piano invites it.

I see what you mean and maybe I agree. I have a recording of Chick Corea (Acoustic band) on which he sounds pretty much the same the whole album. After the first song you know what Corea has to offer. But . . . . on the other hand this invites us to listen to the music. The chords, melody, rhythm, etc. Not to Chick Corea.
But this could be a guitar-player listening to a piano player. When I listen to a guitar player it's easier to hear differences, because I know the instrument better. I recognize some sax players but most of the time I hear a sax player.

[2bornot2bop]

A lot of people do not have time or inclination to learn lots of instruments. I admire people who can play lots of instruments. But that's not me. If I wanted to play piano, I'd take lessons. But I don't want to. The woods are full of pianists, all of whom play too loud in the ensemble, play to much, double the melody for others who don't need it, and consume all the harmonic space. They suck up all the air.

And yes, this is a GUITAR forum, so naturally we generally prefer the guitar. I certainly do. I also think it's pathological to devote lots of time and energy to one instrument and then go around saying one really doesn't care much for that instrument and really would rather be playing some other instrument.

I find pianists to be some of the most technically advanced, but musically messed up people. They think the ensemble revolves around them. Like the drunk uncle at thanksgiving who won't stop talking.

I never met anyone who didn't like the piano. The entire orchestra is right there. If you're into arranging that's the place to do it. Many of the jazz greats who played sax, or trumpet also played some piano.

I've heard this complaint about pianists who play to loud. But I don't know pro pianists who play with issues. And there's hundreds of them. I can't imagine not listening to Keith Jarrett over and over again. His beauty is beyond reproach. Or Gene Harris, whose timing and rhythm are nothing but perfection. But what the heck, I'm biased for piano. It's the most beautiful instrument ever created.