Difficulty getting into Jazz Guitar, despite playing it.

[grahambop]

Everyone should play whichever instrument they like and listen to whatever they like.

I like listening to most instruments, but I go through phases of liking different things. One of the things I like about jazz is there is always another great musician out there you haven’t heard, it’s inexhaustible.

I even took up the sax for a while many years ago, but eventually realised it was getting nowhere so I stuck to the guitar. Which was for the best, as I could never have put in the hours on the sax late at night when the kids were in bed. But I could practise quietly in the evenings on the guitar, and that’s how I progressed.

I like to think you can learn something from all instruments and apply it to the guitar (if you want to!).

Maybe not the bagpipes though...

[2bornot2bop]

The only one being stupid in this thread is you. But hey, once you graduate high school I'm sure things will change.

How was I being "stupid". I wasn't the one offending others suggesting their instrument was boring.

[wintermoon]

well, to be honest, that Mathis stuff you posted is boring...............to me anyway

[2bornot2bop]

well, to be honest, that Mathis stuff you posted is boring...............to me anyway

You don't appreciate Mathis either! Hey, I posted it for the Mathis lovers in the house.

[wintermoon]

You don't appreciate Mathis either! Hey, I posted it for the Mathis lovers in the house.

I didn't know there were any!
Does he really belong in a 'soul' music thread?

[christianm77]

The guitar is more beautiful (Chopin said 'there is nothing more beautiful than the guitar, except two guitars'), but pianists often play more music.

[2bornot2bop]

I didn't know there were any!
Does he really belong in a 'soul' music thread?

I'm running out of soul music hits.

[arielcee]

Sorry for starting a firestorm. Certainly didn't mean to say I don't like or even love the guitar or it's players. Definitely not that at all. Can't remember where I was going. Maybe just the grass is greener on the other side. I put down guitar for a year to work on saxophone and same thing kind of happened. I envy the person who can never get tired of something no matter how much they do it. It's strange, though, I read or hear about famous musicians like Trane, Wayne, Sonny, to name a few who at times said they weren't really listening to music much. Whatever, it doesn't really matter. People get inspiration from wherever and whatever. If we all listened to the same stuff, practiced the same things then we'd sound more homogeneous and boring than many people probably think we already do.

[grahambop]

I seem to recall an interview with Julian Bream where he was asked if he liked listening to classical guitar recordings. He said no, he had enough of playing the guitar all day, and most of the guitar repertoire was not by the greatest composers. He said he preferred listening to Haydn string quartets.

Someone asked Dexter Gordon if he listened to jazz records and he said his head was so full of all the music he had ever heard that he couldn’t stand listening to any records!

[frankhond]

The guitar is more beautiful (Chopin said 'there is nothing more beautiful than the guitar, except two guitars'), but pianists often play more music.

If Chopin would’ve lived in the internet era, he would probably make a forum thread titled “piano is irrelevant”.

[2bornot2bop]

The piano is a superb instrument. Some of you don’t like the way players play. Piano players can say the same about guitar players. That’s irrelevant criticism. The piano is the most relevant instrument. If it weren’t you wouldn’t have people navigating 800 pounds of wood and wire up 10 flights of stairs.

[jameslovestal]

The piano is a superb instrument. Some of you don’t like the way players play. Piano players can say the same about guitar players. That’s irrelevant criticism. The piano is the most relevant instrument. If it weren’t you wouldn’t have people navigating 800 pounds of wood and wire up 10 flights of stairs.

The only irrelevant criticism is your criticism of irrelevant criticism.

[2bornot2bop]

The only irrelevant criticism is your criticism of irrelevant criticism.

And you know where you can stick your criticism.

[teeps]

Sorry for starting a firestorm ... If we all listened to the same stuff, practiced the same things then we'd sound more homogeneous and boring than many people probably think we already do.

I think you raised an interesting and relevant question which gave rise to several reflections. Thank you for that.

[greveost]

Let's face it, when it comes to playing or listening to an instrument, the piano is limitless. It's the cats meow. And it never gets boring. Or, Freddie Hubbard on Flugel, or Dexter Gordon on sax, who never runs out of ideas.

Just like any instrument piano has it's limitations, one HUGE disadvantage is the fact that there is very little ways to change the sound of the note once it is hit, compared to a guitar or a horn.
Another is, very limited options is HOW to hit the note compared to a horn and even more so a guitar.

A horn has a HUGE disadvantage as it is a single note instrument, so chords etc...

And the list goes on and on...

[2bornot2bop]

Just like any instrument piano has it's limitations, one HUGE disadvantage is the fact that there is very little ways to change the sound of the note once it is hit, compared to a guitar or a horn.
Another is, very limited options is HOW to hit the note compared to a horn and even more so a guitar.

A horn has a HUGE disadvantage as it is a single note instrument, so chords etc...

And the list goes on and on...

But making good music doesn’t require one to bend notes. And you can play legato or staccato if you choose. But if the piano has so many limitations, as you say, how do you explain that every major piano player is both easily noticeable and has there own voice. And you can tell women and men each have their own unique voice. This should be impossible to do if the piano was so limited in its playability. But it’s not. One can discern McCoy Tyner from Bill Evans from Ahmad Jamal from Oscar Peterson from Keith Jarrett from Alan Broadbent. Each is immediately recognizable and with their own unique voice.

[rabbit]

Everybody secretly wants to be a guitarist.

Attachment 76830

Mark Twain, James Joyce & Yul Brynner also played guitar.

Add to the list, please, if you can.

[Litterick]

André Previn: You’re playing all the wrong notes.

Eric Morecambe: I am playing all the right notes; but not necessarily in the right order.

[jameslovestal]

I'm not much of a fan of piano. Louder, faster seems to be the theme. Like trumpet players: High Loud Fast. I do have recordings of pianists, usually comping for guitarists ;-)

I tire of piano after about 15 minutes. Peterson is astounding. But after 10 minutes you've heard all he's got because he put it all out there in the first tune. He uses his entire vocabulary on every single chorus because the piano invites it. Maybe I like Bill Evans more.

So no, I don't like piano enough to spend a lot of time listening to piano-centric music.

If it's blasphemy, then stone me.

The topic of jazz pianist has been discussed before at this forum and what you mention isn't unusual. I tend to agree with what you're saying here. Related to your comment of "entire vocabulary on every single chorus": I would add that often one can't tell the first chorus from the last one; L less build-up-soloing (I.e. the building of ideas from the first chorus to the last one and how the ideas are connected); lack of tension and release in a solo or within a chorus of a solo. This results in a degree of "sameness" in each chorus. As noted within this "sameness" is some fantastic musicianship, but does the overall song \ solo lose some musicality? It does to my ears.

Of course this isn't limited to piano players but as you note "the piano invites it"; I.e. one can do a lot with two hands on a piano that the vast majority of other instruments can't get close to. That is the inherent strength of a piano, but it can also become a weakness.

Thus I prefer listening to say, Kenny Drew, over Peterson or Tatum.

[2bornot2bop]

Kenny Drew Jr was talented too. Here he is playing only using his left hand. Gone way too soon at 56!

[greveost]

But making good music doesn’t require one to bend notes.

I never said that

But if the piano has so many limitations

I never said that, I said piano has it's limitations, just like any other instrument. And it was a response to your opinion that the piano is limitless. Which of course it isn't, not by any stretch of the imagination.

[grahambop]

Of course it’s possible to enjoy piano and guitar working together sometimes:

[Marcel_A]

Melhdau and Metheny is another.

[ragman1]

Everyone should play whichever instrument they like and listen to whatever they like.

I like listening to most instruments, but I go through phases of liking different things. One of the things I like about jazz is there is always another great musician out there you haven’t heard, it’s inexhaustible.

I even took up the sax for a while many years ago, but eventually realised it was getting nowhere so I stuck to the guitar. Which was for the best, as I could never have put in the hours on the sax late at night when the kids were in bed. But I could practise quietly in the evenings on the guitar, and that’s how I progressed.

I like to think you can learn something from all instruments and apply it to the guitar (if you want to!).

Maybe not the bagpipes though...

I live in Scotland and there are lots of bagpipe buskers churning out Amazing Grace and Scotland The Brave, and all that. You get used to it. But the best one was a young girl music student who played Swedish folk songs on the pipes. She vanished one day, don't know what happened to her.

[grahambop]

I live in Scotland and there are lots of bagpipe buskers churning out Amazing Grace and Scotland The Brave, and all that. You get used to it. But the best one was a young girl music student who played Swedish folk songs on the pipes. She vanished one day, don't know what happened to her.

Probably took up jazz guitar and was never heard of again.