A jazz artist or a jazz musician?

[kris]

Isn’t Fried Bananas a Dexter original?

I mean it’s a contrafact which is pretty close to a solo on a standard.


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DG -He has several compositions of his own.
DG recorded albums mainly with jazz sets, occasionally posting his compositions.
Cheese Cake
Soy Califa
Hanky Panky
Fried Bananas
Le Coiffeur...etc

[Aiq]

Air sculptures, man.

Sub-atomic vibrations which rearrange molecular structure.

Or something…

[Christian Miller]

DG -He has several compositions of his own.
DG recorded albums mainly with jazz sets, occasionally posting his compositions.
Cheese Cake
Soy Califa
Hanky Panky
Fried Bananas
Le Coiffeur...etc

Cheese cake is a good one


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[kris]

Zoot Sims
Lester Young
Erroll Garner
Ed Bickert

They were probably not composers.

[grahambop]

Chet Baker-he played jazz standards all his life.
Similarly, Dexter Gordon-but I'm not sure.
They were generally not composers.
Unless we treat their solos as some kind of 'compositions".

lol that’s what happened with the Chet Baker/Warne Marsh album (Blues for a Reason). If you listen, it’s obvious they were both just improvising together over some standard changes without stating the melody, but the Penguin Record Guide goes on about Chet’s ‘challenging unfamiliar charts’ or some such nonsense.

[John A.]

Is there any subtle difference between a jazz artist and a jazz musician?

There can be a difference, but it depends on the fuller context of how the words are being used. Sometimes they’re synonyms, a way of saying the same thing with different words. For example, you’re writing an article about a Duke Ellington. To avoid constantly repeating the same word (which is annoying to most readers), sometimes you call him an artist and sometimes you call him a musician.

Sometimes, though, “artist” is used to distinguish between degrees of creativity and originality. So if you’re writing an article comparing Duke Ellington to Kenny G, you might write that they’re both musicians, but Duke is an artist and Kenny G is not.

[kris]

There can be a difference, but it depends one the fuller context of how the words are being used. Sometimes they’re synonyms, a way of saying the same thing with different words. For example, you’re writing an article about a Duke Ellington. To avoid constantly repeating the same word (which is annoying to most readers), sometimes you call him an artist and sometimes you call him a musician.

Sometimes, though, “artist” is used to distinguish between degrees of creativity and originality. So if you’re writing an article comparing Duke Ellington to Kenny G, you might write that they’re both musicians, but Duke is an artist and Kenny G is not.

I understand.
But when compared to Duke Ellington, any musician can be considered a non-artist.
If I compare Kenny G to a no name jazz amateur... then Kenny G would be an artist.

[StormyMonday]

Is a Lexus just a pretentious Toyota? Just kidding there but last night I played at the opening of a gallery exhibition. The artists used a variety of media and my reactions to them varied but every one of them is an artist. They use their talents to share something with me. I look at anyone who picks up an instrument the same way. Yes, some are Masters and most of us are not, but classifications like artist vs musicians seem more like somthing a culture blog writer would value more than an actual player.

[kris]

Is a Lexus just a pretentious Toyota? Just kidding there but last night I played at the opening of a gallery exhibition. The artists used a variety of media and my reactions to them varied but every one of them is an artist. They use their talents to share something with me. I look at anyone who picks up an instrument the same way. Yes, some are Masters and most of us are not, but classifications like artist vs musicians seem more like somthing a culture blog writer would value more than an actual player.

And would you like people to call you a jazz artist in the future?

[StormyMonday]

And would you like people to call you a jazz artist in the future?

Me, absolutely not! I just call myself a guy who plays guitar and loves music. But I didn't dedicate my life to doing that, so really whatever I would be called is kind of meaningless.

[kris]

This a 'closed question' that only invites a yes/no response, but I think you're asking for something more/deeper.

You are asking if there's a subtle difference, and your question implies there's significant overlap between an artist and musician, maybe for example, they are 97% similar and do almost that exact same things. It seems you're asking about maybe 2-3% difference.

Here are my questions for you:

1. Out of curiosity, may I know why you're asking about that 2-3% difference? (What is the benefit of knowing this information?)

2. Once you know this information, what are you going to do?

3. Who else needs to know this information, and what do you hope for them to do?

4. Finally, would you call yourself an artist or a musician?

I was described in the office-association as a jazz artist, and I feel only a jazz musician.
I don't have any rare goals related to this thread.This is not a survey to be completed.
Why do you ask?

[kris]

Asking because I am not a pro, but wanted to know if identifying as an 'artist' vs. a 'musician' changes how the musician approaches the gig, the logistics/admin, the bandstand, practice routine, etc.

You complicate things a lot.
It's a bit difficult for me to judge the situation of a musician who is not pro.
These are other problems.
A pro musician signs a contract with a record label, organizes gigs, makes contact with TV, radio, etc.
He often does it all himself.Making a living from playing jazz is a constant job.
Someone who plays only as a hobby has security in the form of another job.
That is my opinion.
In short, for some it is fun, for others it is a difficult profession.

[Strat-itis]

Artist is used to describe a musician who is accepted by the public as being creatively eminent, while musician is a catch all term. This is regardless of genre. It doesn't matter if they put out original material or not. So Petey Bernstein would be known as a jazz artist, Chris Parks a jazz musician.

[Christian Miller]

And would you like people to call you a jazz artist in the future?

They don’t call me

Boom ching


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[pamosmusic]

Whether or not they are prepared to play Funky Summertime

I notice you didn’t say which is which

[pamosmusic]

A jazz musician plays jazz, a jazz artist paints jazz musicians...

Check out Jonathan Glass. He’s on a first name basis with every server in every jazz club in Manhattan. He used to come and sit at table 47 seat 2 maybe twice a week at the Jazz Standard when I worked there. Super nice guy and does so wild pen and ink drawings of the musicians.

Jonathan Glass Art Studios

[ragman1]

It's subjective. If you feel someone is worth calling an artist then do so. If you don't, don't. You might get a few funny looks but never mind

I've known a few piss artists in my time

[AllanAllen]

The only reason a musician isn’t an artist is because they are gatekeeping themself. There’s probably a word for it that a psychologist would know.

Kenny G is an artist, Busta Rhymes is an artist. Them polka dot guys with phallic noses are artists.

[coyote-1]

I see Jazz as an Artform, same as painting, sculpture, dance, novelists etc.

So, the terms Jazz artist or Jazz musician is someone who performs the art of playing Jazz.

Plenty of folks who do these things professionally are not artists. They are craftspeople. Painters on the banks of the Seine who will, in six minutes, paint a likeness of you. Sculptors churning out a dozen of the same copy of a famous sculpture daily for months to fulfill a contract. Novelists who write predictable romance paperbacks. Etc.

[kris]

Plenty of folks who do these things professionally are not artists. They are craftspeople. Painters on the banks of the Seine who will, in six minutes, paint a likeness of you. Sculptors churning out a dozen of the same copy of a famous sculpture daily for months to fulfill a contract. Novelists who write predictable romance paperbacks. Etc.

This is one of the most interesting answers.
But what to call a person who will make a copy brilliantly.
Someone can notice a kind of artistry in this.Artistic abilities....?
I wonder if such a problem exists in music?

[kris]

They don’t call me

Boom ching


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Maybe they don't know your phone number...?

[kris]

Maybe effective advertising of yourself causes you to be in the world of artists...?

[StormyMonday]

This is one of the most interesting answers.
But what to call a person who will make a copy brilliantly.
Someone can notice a kind of artistry in this.Artistic abilities....?
I wonder if such a problem exists in music?

Tribute bands?

[kris]

Tribute bands?

no....

[coyote-1]

This is one of the most interesting answers.
But what to call a person who will make a copy brilliantly.
Someone can notice a kind of artistry in this.Artistic abilities....?
I wonder if such a problem exists in music?

Answer: ‘Cover’ bands. If you play in a band whose job is to perform the music of one (or many) original band(s), and you do that by doing what’s on the record, you’re not doing art. You’re being a craftsperson.

Understand that this is not a value judgment. Craftspeople are often at least as talented as artists, sometimes can be considered more so. And an artist might be an artist, yet make their living in the world being a craftsperson. It’s simply about awareness of the role you’re doing in a given moment.

Is there an art to being a brilliant craftsperson? One could say there’s an art to doing anything well.

Going thru some of the other responses… Charlie Parker! Most of his great tunes were merely improvisations over existing changes - which he remembered and transcribed and/or recorded. Anthropology was just him blowing over Rhythm changes, you know? But yeah, he was an artist.