NYC Jazz History

[raylinds]

Maybe because I spent most of my adult life living in NYC a few blocks away from what used to be "Swing Alley" on 52nd Street, but I have been fascinated by the history of jazz and jazz clubs in NYC.I used to take walking tours of jazz landmarks like Charlie Parker's former residence in the East Village near Tompkins Square Park and former jazz clubs and frequented jazz record stores that have been there for ages (I have an extensive record collection).

Of course, I also went to jazz clubs- I saw Jim Hall at the Village Vanguard and went to the Blue Note (saw Elvin Jones and other greats there) the reopened Birdland and Minton's Playhouse. I saw Mike Stern at The 55 Bar, Vic Juris and Les Paul a number of times (I lived 3 blocks from Iridium where he played every Monday until he passed away). I was fortunate enough to see Sonny Rollins several times. It is what I missed most about the city since I retired and moved to Connecticut.

I love books about it like Birdland and Swing Street by Leo Sullivan, especially when they have a lot of pictures.

Does anybody else love jazz history, especially relative to NYC?

Please recommend some good books about jazz history, whether or not it is about NYC.

[pamosmusic]

Maybe because I spent most of my adult life living in NYC a few blocks away from what used to be "Swing Alley" on 52nd Street, but I have been fascinated by the history of jazz and jazz clubs in NYC.I used to take walking tours of jazz landmarks like Charlie Parker's former residence in the East Village near Tompkins Square Park and former jazz clubs and frequented jazz record stores that have been there for ages (I have an extensive record collection).

Of course, I also went to jazz clubs- I saw Jim Hall at the Village Vanguard and went to the Blue Note (saw Elvin Jones and other greats there) the reopened Birdland and Minton's Playhouse. I saw Mike Stern at The 55 Bar, Vic Juris and Les Paul a number of times (I lived 3 blocks from Iridium where he played every Monday until he passed away). I was fortunate enough to see Sonny Rollins several times. It is what I missed most about the city since I retired and moved to Connecticut.

I love books about it like Birdland and Swing Street by Leo Sullivan, especially when they have a lot of pictures.

Does anybody else love jazz history, especially relative to NYC?

Please recommend some good books about jazz history, whether or not it is about NYC.

Not anything revolutionary here but all of Ash Kahn's books are great. I'm guessing you know those.

Ashley Kahn - Wikipedia

55 Bar was definitely a loss. When I moved to the city, one of the first shows I saw was Vic and Sheryl Bailey doing their fusion Hendrix project at 55 Bar.

[raylinds]

Not anything revolutionary here but all of Ash Kahn's books are great. I'm guessing you know those.

Ashley Kahn - Wikipedia

55 Bar was definitely a loss. When I moved to the city, one of the first shows I saw was Vic and Sheryl Bailey doing their fusion Hendrix project at 55 Bar.

I have a number of books by Kahn. I was amazed at the immense talent I saw at the 55 Bar for both jazz and blues. Hard to believe it was a little basement level hole in the wall!

[Onesimus]

Here are a few good books you might enjoy.

[raylinds]

Here are a few good books you might enjoy.

Thanks for that! I ordered Sittin' In the other day and am awaiting delivery.

[David B]

'Off the Books' by Peter Leitch. A raw, honest look over a life in NYC jazz over the last 40 odd years. I think it's the most insightful autobiography written by a jazz musician.

'From Birdland to Broadway: Scenes from a Jazz Life' by Bill Crow.

'Jazz Anecdotes' by Bill Crow.

Thelonious Monk: The Life and Times of an American Original' by Robin D.G. Kelley.

[David B]

March 2023.

[David B]

The 2015 documentary 'The Jazz Loft According to W. Eugene Smith' chronicles the jam sessions in a Sixth Avenue loft between 1957 and 1965. It's occasionally free to watch on Amazon Prime but can be rented online.

[Litterick]

Whitney Balliett's collections of pieces written for The New Yorker and other publications offer many vivid accounts of talking to musicians and hearing them play in New York:


* The sound of surprise : 46 pieces on jazz. 1960, Dutton.
* Dinosaurs in the Morning: 41 Pieces on Jazz, 1962, J.B. Lippincott.
* Such Sweet Thunder: 49 Pieces on Jazz, 1966, Bobbs-Merrill Company
* Ecstasy at the Onion: 31 Pieces on Jazz, 1971, Bobbs-Merrill Company
* New York Notes: A Journal of Jazz, 1972-1975, 1976, Houghton Mifflin
* Night Creature: A Journal of Jazz 1975-1980, 1981, Oxford University Press
* Goodbyes and Other Messages: A Journal of Jazz, 1981-1990, 1991, Oxford University Press
* Collected Works: A Journal of Jazz 1954-2000, 2000, St. Martin's Press

[ruger9]

Great thread!!! I just ordered Sittin' In and Swing Street

Speaking of documentaries (mentioned above), has anyone got any recommendations? I'm a big reader but love to see pics to go along with the story...
I own Ken Burns' JAZZ and think it's fantastic. I watch it every few years.

While I have several jazz books, none are on NYC specifically. I read some about NYC in the Johnny Smith biography, and the Charlie Christian biography. But they weren't about the "scene" so much as biographies of the players.

[Onesimus]

Great thread!!! I just ordered Sittin' In and Swing Street

Speaking of documentaries (mentioned above), has anyone got any recommendations? I'm a big reader but love to see pics to go along with the story...
I own Ken Burns' JAZZ and think it's fantastic. I watch it every few years.

While I have several jazz books, none are on NYC specifically. I read some about NYC in the Johnny Smith biography, and the Charlie Christian biography. But they weren't about the "scene" so much as biographies of the players.

Man, I love the 1920’s-1950’s blues/jazz of the Kansas City musicians and bands. If you want to delve deeper into that; check out the Eddie Durham documentary on PBS. Also there are three books based on different phases of his career. The last book is about his time in NYC.

[Onesimus]

Great thread!!! I just ordered Sittin' In and Swing Street

Speaking of documentaries (mentioned above), has anyone got any recommendations? I'm a big reader but love to see pics to go along with the story...
I own Ken Burns' JAZZ and think it's fantastic. I watch it every few years.

While I have several jazz books, none are on NYC specifically. I read some about NYC in the Johnny Smith biography, and the Charlie Christian biography. But they weren't about the "scene" so much as biographies of the players.

And if you like Gypsy Jazz here are a couple of documentaries:

[Onesimus]

And for NYC and the seminal jazz year 1959.

[Onesimus]

And more KC jazz.

[raylinds]

The last few posts got me thinking about several fictional movies about jazz (besides the obvious and great Bird and 'Round Midnight) there is Sweet and Lowdown, where Sean Penn plays a Gypsy Jazz guitarist and for fans of the Kansas City music scene there is Altman's Kansas City (not a great movie but some great jazz players playing historic great jazz players). For older films, there's Kirk Douglas in Young Man with a Horn and Paul Newman in Paris Blues.

[Onesimus]

The last few posts got me thinking about several fictional movies about jazz (besides the obvious and great Bird and 'Round Midnight) there is Sweet and Lowdown, where Sean Penn plays a Gypsy Jazz guitarist and for fans of the Kansas City music scene there is Altman's Kansas City (not a great movie but some great jazz players playing historic great jazz players). For older films, there's Kirk Douglas in Young Man with a Horn and Paul Newman in Paris Blues.

If you haven’t watched the movie Django, you should. It is a good film/movie.

[ruger9]

The last few posts got me thinking about several fictional movies about jazz (besides the obvious and great Bird and 'Round Midnight) there is Sweet and Lowdown, where Sean Penn plays a Gypsy Jazz guitarist and for fans of the Kansas City music scene there is Altman's Kansas City (not a great movie but some great jazz players playing historic great jazz players). For older films, there's Kirk Douglas in Young Man with a Horn and Paul Newman in Paris Blues.

This reminds me of the movie "Swing Kids"... it was so long ago, I don't remember if it was any good, it was about Nazi Germany (and the music of course)

Swing Kids is a 1993 American historical drama film directed by Thomas Carterin his feature film debut, and starring Robert Sean Leonard, Christian Bale, Frank Whaley, Barbara Hershey and Kenneth Branagh. The title refers to a youth subculture in Nazi Germany, in which teenagers embraced American and British swing music in defiance of the Nazi regime. The film follows two high school students in their attempt to be swing kids by night and Hitler Youth by day, a decision that acutely impacts their friends and families.

[raylinds]

If you haven’t watched the movie Django, you should. It is a good film/movie.

I must see that!!!!

[raylinds]

This reminds me of the movie "Swing Kids"... it was so long ago, I don't remember if it was any good, it was about Nazi Germany (and the music of course)

Swing Kids is a 1993 American historical drama film directed by Thomas Carterin his feature film debut, and starring Robert Sean Leonard, Christian Bale, Frank Whaley, Barbara Hershey and Kenneth Branagh. The title refers to a youth subculture in Nazi Germany, in which teenagers embraced American and British swing music in defiance of the Nazi regime. The film follows two high school students in their attempt to be swing kids by night and Hitler Youth by day, a decision that acutely impacts their friends and families.

I did say that and it was pretty good, not great but I'll watch anything about jazz.

[raylinds]

In the Miles Davis autobiography he talks a lot about the NYC jazz scene and its changes that came with the passing of time. The book “Milestones” has more of the same. The Kahn authored “Kind of Blue” is a deep dive into the musicians and recording of the first great Davis recording of the same title.

I have all of those except Milestones. I may have to pick that one up. Miles was a fascinating cat.

[John A.]

Jon Raney’s site (jonraney.com) has a lot of good historical stuff, interviews, and local color (through the prism of Jimmy Raney, and to degree Doug).

Ditto to the Ashley Kahn books and
Miles “autobiography”.

I’m not particularly versed in NYC jazz lore, but I’m a native and the reciprocal of my age is a very small number, so I’ve seen some stuff.

[RLetson]

It's not NYC at all, but the late Mike Zwerin's La Tristesse de Saint Louis (revised ed., Swing Under the Nazis) is a really fine piece of research and a good read. And while they're essentially giant collections of performance reviews, Gary Giddens' Weather Bird and Visions of Jazz can be absorbed a chapter at a time.

I'm partial to musician bios and memoirs, but a particular favorite is Steve Jordan's Rhythm Man, which is as much about life on the road as the particulars of Jordan's career.

[Eugle]

Great thread on NYC jazz history. Really takes you back. The way the music evolved in the city, the venues, the people… all of it has this rich texture that’s tough to replicate elsewhere.
I recently discovered an app called pulsd, which is all about discovering events in NYC — concerts, gallery openings, jazz nights, you name it. I've been using it to find local jazz nights and smaller shows around the city. It’s a great way to actually experience some of that history in real time.

[Bob_Ross]

I was amazed at the immense talent I saw at the 55 Bar for both jazz and blues. Hard to believe it was a little basement level hole in the wall!

Oh man, the first time I walked into 55 I took two steps off that tiny claustrophobic stairway, turned to my friend (who had told me about it), and said "Are you kidding? This place is a dump!"
He just laughed and pointed to the bandstand: It was Mike Stern, Anthony Jackson, and Steve Smith.

==========

One of the things I miss most about NYC are the Not-Quite-Jazz Clubs...places (usually on the LES) like Spiral, or Gargoyle Mechanique Laboratory, venues where you could hear radically off-the-beaten-path ensembles improvising at the highest -- or at least, strangest -- levels. But they all seemed to have shut their doors in the past 20 or 30 years.

[rpjazzguitar]

The Zinc Bar is a great place to hear jazz.

One night I heard Jack Wilkins, Joe Cohn, Mark Whitfield, Vic Juris and Chico Pinheiro sitting in. I don't recall the names of the bassist and drummer, but I recall that one of them played with Basie, the drummer, iirc.

Back in the day, Monk was the house pianist.

The place is far smaller than you'd imagine from the size of the talent.

Mezzrow and Small's are similarly smaller than expected.