The Summer of Rhythm Guitar 2024

[AllanAllen]

Don't overthink it. It's a B dominant going to an Emaj in the next bar. Play the 7th or 3/7.

Yeah, I knew what to play after your reply. I wanted to see it through since a few people said to look at what the other instruments are doing. I also really didn't think someone would call an augmented and flat 5 in the same chord. Luckily I found that b9 and it's just a typo.

[pawlowski6132]

The plus doesn't mean add 7.

It means sharp the 5.

That doesn’t make sense though. There are plenty of dom7 chords without an add7. Music tends to make sense, it’s why I like it so much.

[mr. beaumont]

I think you just have to look at it as a classic shitty big band guitar chart that is giving you the overall sound of what the horns are doing to flesh out the full chord...in this case it's a very specific altered dominant.

[AllanAllen]

The plus doesn't mean add 7.

It means sharp the 5.

It's my post.

Oh, I get what you mean now. I thought you said B+ would be B D# F##, but B+7 would be B D# F# A (natural 5th). But you meant add a dom7 to the augmented triad, not an "add7" chord.

My bad, I'm not good at all this written music stuff.

[pawlowski6132]

Oh, I get what you mean now. I thought you said B+ would be B D# F##, but B+7 would be B D# F# A (natural 5th). But you meant add a dom7 to the augmented triad, not an "add7" chord.

My bad, I'm not good at all this written music stuff.

Yes!

I'm not great either. But I don't read/play charts either.

For my approach (not playing in a group or with just a soloist)

1. Pick the tune
2. Lean the progression (ex. II-V-I, etc.)
3. Pick a key
4. Play!

By doing it that way, I have lots of freedom to choose inversions, voicings, substitutions, progression changes etc.

Much easier for my little brain.

That way I don't have to remember chords, shapes, etc. and you can play the song in any key.

p.s.

One other thing I do to make it even more simple to learn is just distill the changes down to the bear minimum. In other words, you can remove the helper chords. Probably, most of the non-diatonic, secondary dominant chords aren't necessary. Plus you can get rid of m7 chords functioning in a non-diatonic II-V. Most songs from the American Song Book, Tin Pan Alley era that follow this traditional functional harmony can be treated this way. If you look at it from a progression (vs chord name) perspective, they're all very similar.

[Jwr]

Hello.
As a classical wind player trying to learn how to do Freddie Green ( on guitar), my approach is probably backwards and not the best, but really enjoyable:

-Put on a random Count Basie tune on spotify.
- Improvise on the D string.
-try adding the G string if the tempo allows it, and there is a convenient chord grip.

Question for you real guitarplayers: can you point me to the for me not so obvious holes in my method? Perhaps some tunes ( in this style) where a more vertical understanding of harmony is important. Or where you know I can’t get away with it…

( I do read charts if I have to, and know the basic chords)

J

[Mick-7]

Hello.
As a classical wind player trying to learn how to do Freddie Green ( on guitar), my approach is probably backwards and not the best, but really enjoyable:

-Put on a random Count Basie tune on spotify.
- Improvise on the D string.
-try adding the G string if the tempo allows it, and there is a convenient chord grip.

Question for you real guitar players: can you point me to the for me not so obvious holes in my method? Perhaps some tunes ( in this style) where a more vertical understanding of harmony is important. Or where you know I can’t get away with it…

( I do read charts if I have to, and know the basic chords)
J

Not sure if I qualify as a "real" guitarist, I'll have to ask one of my imaginary playmates and get back to you, however....

"can you point me to the for me not so obvious holes in my method?"

Afraid I'm going to have to remove the words "no so" from your sentence because the hole in your approach is obvious, which is: the primary role of the rhythm guitarist is to, as the name implies, provide rhythmic/harmonic support to the horn players and soloist. Therefore, he can't be improvising the changes any more than the bass player can be (and he must be in sync with him). In other words, serious study is required to develop this skill, one can't just play it by ear.

[mr. beaumont]

Hello.
As a classical wind player trying to learn how to do Freddie Green ( on guitar), my approach is probably backwards and not the best, but really enjoyable:

-Put on a random Count Basie tune on spotify.
- Improvise on the D string.
-try adding the G string if the tempo allows it, and there is a convenient chord grip.

Question for you real guitarplayers: can you point me to the for me not so obvious holes in my method? Perhaps some tunes ( in this style) where a more vertical understanding of harmony is important. Or where you know I can’t get away with it…

( I do read charts if I have to, and know the basic chords)

J

I think you started with one of the "pie in the sky" end goals as opposed to actually going through the process.

So you are officially invited to join me with a summer long exploration of Rhythm guitar!

[Jwr]

Thank you Mick-7 for replying.

I should have put my question in a clearer context.
Improvising like this means to play something that sounds like Freddie Green. A tenor line, weawing the harmony with the bass.

Listening to these recordings, there seems to be plenty of freedom between these two, the bass providing most of the information.

[AllanAllen]

Thank you Mick-7 for replying.

I should have put my question in a clearer context.
Improvising like this means to play something that sounds like Freddie Green. A tenor line, weawing the harmony with the bass.

Listening to these recordings, there seems to be plenty of freedom between these two, the bass providing most of the information.

Best way to judge is from you posting a clip of what you do.

[Jwr]

Mr. beaumont.
Thanks, I was hoping for an official invitation. :-)

[mr. beaumont]

Mr. beaumont.
Thanks, I was hoping for an official invitation. :-)

Welcome. Lots of posts about the tenor line coming up...I've made a lot of realizations after some more close Freddie listening.

[mr. beaumont]

Also, my next few posts will likely be text in nature...family in from out of town, and the prospects of having a semi quiet 5 minutes to make a video are as good as the White Sox's playoff chances.

[Mick-7]

I should have put my question in a clearer context.
Improvising like this means to play something that sounds like Freddie Green. A tenor line, weawing the harmony with the bass.

Listening to these recordings, there seems to be plenty of freedom between these two, the bass providing most of the information.

Not sure what you mean, I think you'd have to understand what he's doing harmonically to copy his style, the top voice of the chord will only give you one piece of the puzzle.

Which raises a question: does Freddy include chord extensions and/or altered tones in his 3 note voicings? Or just stick to the primary chord tones: root, 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 7th?

[Jwr]

Mick-7
What I mean:

If you distill the FG style down to the most audible, it’s the constant movement on the D string. Mostly going to primary chord tones. There is of course a lot more to his playing, but for me this is a starting point. An approach.

[pawlowski6132]

Mick-7
What I mean:

If you distill the FG style down to the most audible, it’s the constant movement on the D string. Mostly going to primary chord tones. There is of course a lot more to his playing, but for me this is a starting point. An approach.

I think that's what you're hearing somehow but that's not what he's doing.

He's playing chords and following the progressions. He's not improvising anything.

[Jwr]

Pawlowski.

I’m not shure how improvising could mean not to follow the progressions.

I guess my first post left the impression that I have no clue of what I’m doing,

The FG style is well documented, for instance on freddiegreen.org, and my approach can be summed up like this:

-focusing on linear movement.
-listening for the harmony
—
blablabla….lets just move on,

[mr. beaumont]

No need to move on! You're both right, really.

Could Freddie improvise these parts? Almost certainly yes.

But do they adhere to the chord progression closely, not move around on every beat, and focus on some very specific chord tones? Also yes.

[AllanAllen]

I guess my first post left the impression that I have no clue of what I’m doing,

I thought from your first post you were turning on some Count Basie and just winging it, which like Jeff said, would be starting at the end. But it seems like you are aware of the changes as you're playing and not just guessing on the D string.

But as always, a clip is the best way to show what you do.

[lawson-stone]

How does this thread work? Is there a specific tune being worked on for developing rhythm parts? Or is it just a more free-wheeling discussion? I have a 1955 acoustic L50 that i might bust out and use for posting here, but I want to make sure I'm doing the right stuff.

[pawlowski6132]

How does this thread work? Is there a specific tune being worked on for developing rhythm parts? Or is it just a more free-wheeling discussion? I have a 1955 acoustic L50 that i might bust out and use for posting here, but I want to make sure I'm doing the right stuff.

I'll let Mr. Beaumont answer but, I'm planning to post a new song today or tomorrow; In a Mellow Mood.

I think it's fun to see others' approach to the same song.

[AllanAllen]

I'm definitely treating is as a rhythm guitar free for all.

[mr. beaumont]

How does this thread work? Is there a specific tune being worked on for developing rhythm parts? Or is it just a more free-wheeling discussion? I have a 1955 acoustic L50 that i might bust out and use for posting here, but I want to make sure I'm doing the right stuff.

The only criteria is swing style rhythm guitar. No rules, no songlist, no assignments, just play, or play and talk about discoveries, transcribe, post lead sheets, talk voicings, picking hand stuff, it's ALL welcome.

Definitely cool if you hear someone do a tune and you want to try it as well, things do not have to be linear. It's just an all access rhythm guitar smorgasbord.

And no "comping" allowed!

[Mick-7]

Pawlowski.
I’m not shure how improvising could mean not to follow the progressions

One could certainly improvise by ear without knowing what the chord progressions are. Do you know what they are, have you referenced charts of the tunes you are vamping on? If so, perhaps you could answer my previous question: do you hear Freddie playing anything other than primary chord tones?

[mr. beaumont]

3rds, 7ths, 6ths, those are the most important. Roots and 5ths less so, as the bass is likely taking care of those. Occasional chromatic passing, but not TOO much.

4 of the same per bar or two and two. Very rarely 4 different notes per bar.