Long Passing Diminished Chords - what to do?

[pingu]

The B section of September has a stationary (tonic?) diminished chord for 4 solid bars ....

Quite a challenge ...

I find it difficult to hear the diminished scale
working over this , it always sounds forced

Just running the arps sounds good tho...

I need some new ideas for this stuff
If you have any to spare guys ?

[ragman1]

The B section of September has a stationary (tonic?) diminished chord for 4 solid bars ....

I thought it was

Fm - % - F#o - %
Fm - % - F#o - //

[pauln]

Pauln those are some cool ideas. It seems like you're treating that dim as G7 of some sort and then applying substitutions on that including tritone sub? Am I getting it correct? For the BH guys, I guess that would also open up the Fø (or Abm6º) as a set of possibilities?

Thanks, you are very kind to say so.

The theory folks may think of it that way, so I yield to them.

Personally, I compose, play, practice, perform and improvise exclusively by ear (I've read music since I was 8 years old but have never "used the book" for jazz or any other styles for guitar)... I'm completely self taught and I've pretty much invented my own non-verbal abstract internal representation based only on the phenomenological sound of music, disregarding all named things like keys, notes, chords, etc... except in conversation as needed.

[pingu]

I thought it was

Fm - % - F#o - %
Fm - % - F#o - //

Sorry Rag I meant 'September Song'.
In Bb ...

B section ....
Eb-6 ./. Eo ./.

(Eo = Bbo )

[joe2758]

pingu, try this scale over the Bb dim:

Bb, C, Db, Eb, E (Fb),F, G, A

[pingu]

Thanks guys , lovely

[ragman1]

I meant September Song too, only in F :-)

Most versions I've seen have the B like this (I'll put it in Eb):

Ebm - % - Eo - %
Ebm - % - Eo - // (or F sus)

If you want an idea for the dims instead of the complete diminished scale try including an extra note, the Eb, in the arpeggio.

So Eo arp is E-G-Bb-Db-E. Add an Eb and it becomes E-G-Bb-Db-Eb-E.

Or you could add still another one, the D. Then you get E-G-Bb-Db-D-Eb-E-G. That makes a sort of nice chromatic bluesy run in the middle.

[christianm77]

So we are now talking about soloing options?

If so - I like to relate the leading tone dim chords Bo7 to Cm, as dominant, eg G7(b9)

And the non leading tone dims (Dbo7 to Cm) as the whole half scale.

But actually the latter case can be ‘harmonic minored’. There is a Barry harris way of doing this.... play the related dominant scale (mix) but raise the first degree.

So on Dbo7 in Bb we use C7 with the C moved up to a C#. (Which happens to be D harmonic minor starting on C#.)

Clever huh?