Comping listening group - evolution of accompaniment harmony

**grahambop** · 01-22-2017, 02:23 PM

Recently I saw John Abercrombie's duo with Marc Copland on piano, and at one point John went into a Freddie Greene 4-to-the-bar comp - never thought I'd see that!

**PMB** · 01-22-2017, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by grahambop

Recently I saw John Abercrombie's duo with Marc Copland on piano, and at one point John went into a Freddie Greene 4-to-the-bar comp - never thought I'd see that!

John Abercrombie also plays with his thumb and largely eschews pedals these days so anything's possible. Abercrombie, Scofield, Metheny and Frisell are all 'sons' of Jim Hall and the latter was a huge Freddie Green fan (his four-to-the-bar comping on My Funny Valentine from Undercurrent make that pretty clear) so there's a definite connection.

**grahambop** · 01-23-2017, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by PMB

John Abercrombie also plays with his thumb and largely eschews pedals these days so anything's possible. Abercrombie, Scofield, Metheny and Frisell are all 'sons' of Jim Hall and the latter was a huge Freddie Green fan (his four-to-the-bar comping on My Funny Valentine from Undercurrent make that pretty clear) so there's a definite connection.

Yes, John spoke about the Undercurrent album at the gig, said it was one of his favourites.

**Jonah** · 01-23-2017, 06:47 AM

Recently I saw John Abercrombie's duo with Marc Copland on piano, and at one point John went into a Freddie Greene 4-to-the-bar comp - never thought I'd see that!

Here's a great article by Steve Khan analysing Jim Hall's comping to Bill Evans on 'My Funny Valentine' - 4-to-the-bar style (with transcription)... At the beginning he says that it was John Abercombie who pushed him into that... just by playing it.
(that's the work these guys do behind the scene...)

http://www.stevekhan.com/funnyvala.htm

**grahambop** · 01-23-2017, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Jonah

Here's a great article by Steve Khan analysing Jim Hall's comping to Bill Evans on 'My Funny Valentine' - 4-to-the-bar style (with transcription)... At the beginning he says that it was John Abercombie who pushed him into that... just by playing it.
(that's the work these guys do behind the scene...)

http://www.stevekhan.com/funnyvala.htm

Thanks Jonah, that looks very cool, will check it out later.

**christianm77** · 01-23-2017, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Jonah

Here's a great article by Steve Khan analysing Jim Hall's comping to Bill Evans on 'My Funny Valentine' - 4-to-the-bar style (with transcription)... At the beginning he says that it was John Abercombie who pushed him into that... just by playing it.
(that's the work these guys do behind the scene...)

http://www.stevekhan.com/funnyvala.htm

Thanks so much! I think it might be time to dig this album out again.

I would say Jim's playing on undercurrent is a big influence on me. I love that volume off sound. Problem is doing it larger venues.

Jim Hall often comped this way - there are some good examples on his album jazz guitar - featuring bass and piano, and this was a common way to comp in this kind of trio (which was AFAIK the standard piano trio format until later on?)

In my search some examples of Jim comping on minor tunes, I came across this. This is VERY straight swing era style accompaniment on the head. I'm thinking it's all a reference to Charlie Christian perhaps and his famous version of Topsy? And Freddie, of course, Topsy was a Basie tune.

So Jim knew this type of thing intimately. Maybe no surprise, but it's nice to hear him pay tribute in this way, and you hear the roots of some of Jim's style.

The walking bass thing later is extremely cool. And then walking chords, which is very Jim.

Incidentally I would say Jim's 4/4 comping style isn't much like Freddie's - but spiritually inspired by him obviously.

Here's Charlie BTW - early Monk on piano? Swing era riff bass...

**christianm77** · 01-23-2017, 08:55 AM

Come to think of it Undercurrents was really the record that introduced me to straight 4 comping, and after being inspired by this I started to play this way. That was the way I got pulled into doing the swing/trad/early thing.

But yeah, not all pianists dig this style of comping, but some really do. In a way it's the only way to comp with piano and ensure there is no clash sonically - keeping the guitar sustain very low by using a strong attack the guitar starts to resemble a snare drum or hi hat more. There's enough pitch there so the pianist doesn't have to play left hand.

Another great exponent of this is Tal Farlow. And of course, Herb Ellis.

I like Peter's style as its a more broken up version of that.

+ I also have the 175 now just like Jim :-)

**Jonah** · 01-23-2017, 09:29 AM

Jim Hall and Pat Metheny on minor tune comping each other (Attila Zoller's tune)

**Jonah** · 01-23-2017, 09:40 AM

To me Jim's style of comping is often recognizable by his strumming sound... it often sounds like just common flat-top guitar strumming - something like country players do.. but more subtle and delicate

Check how intesively he comps here

**christianm77** · 01-23-2017, 10:18 AM

Yeah I like the strumming thing - again PB has this in his playing. He talks about it a bit in his musicmasterclass vid, BTW.

**Jonah** · 01-23-2017, 10:35 AM

He talks about it a bit in his musicmasterclass vid, BTW.

You mean demo? Or you bought complete lessons?

**christianm77** · 01-23-2017, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Jonah

You mean demo? Or you bought complete lessons?

I bought the lessons.

**Jonah** · 01-23-2017, 10:54 AM

I bought the lessons.

How was it? (Sorry for going off...)
I usually do not buy these things, but this time I was really tempted to do it...
when I watch his vids he does not seem to say anything I do not know but he always shows it from a perspective I never noticed.

**christianm77** · 01-23-2017, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Jonah

How was it? (Sorry for going off...)
I usually do not buy these things, but this time I was really tempted to do it...
when I watch his vids he does not seem to say anything I do not know but he always shows it from a perspective I never noticed.

It was very good. It was not the best PB workshop I've bought - the best so far was the one on Vevo, but that's no longer available.

But loads of great and practical advice as always. I buy any teaching materials PB puts out. Man's a born teacher IMO as well as being one of my favourite players.

**jordanklemons** · 01-24-2017, 01:38 AM

Nice OP Christian. Lots of great listening in there! I'm such a fan of just basic minor triads being used for the i... or a min(add2). They just feel so right to me at this point. Maybe right's not the best word. They feel so home to me. Which is kind of the point of the I/i chord.

Originally Posted by ragman1

Mind you, I know the syndrome. When you've soloing you're in think-mode and it's harder to drop back into accompanying. He'd probably tell you it wasn't his forte.

If it's any consolation I thought his solo was great. And I mean that seriously. Lovely notes.

This was a hilarious comment. I think the most ironic thing is that you're probably right ragman... Pete probably would say it's not his forte because he's just ridiculously humble and low key and sort of talk and acts that way about any element of his playing.

That said, the reason he's Pete and we all know him is because practically everyone wants him. He put a good amount of albums out as a leader, I think about 10-15ish (including projects he was co-leading with others)... but he's done like 40-50 albums as a sideman because so many people want him in their group. And that's just the officially released albums. The same's true with his gigging and performing. Hell, Sonny Rollins has him on the payroll now.

Part of him being so in demand is because he can play melodically with the best of them, but a big part of that is because he's simply an incredible accompanist. So even when he says it's not his forte... I wouldn't believe him

haha