Guitar and piano together

[emanresu]

Maybe its about sound? gtr+gtr almost always bites well and sounds good whatever crazy things they do together if the timing is tidy.

I was once hushed by piano player too.. it still hurts

Maybe ppl have seriously good piano+gtr comp links to share here? That would be a big help.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Maybe it's the piano player. I'm really struck by this video and how well Guaraldi comps behind this guitarist. It's not a volume or range/register thing only either. The phrasing also stays out of the of the guitarist's. Really tasty, and seems like he can actually play MORE, because of this fact, without overshadowing. Really extraordinary:

[Boston Joe]

It's actually working out well. The pianist and I have agreed on what we're going to do, and we're starting to develop a relationship where we can play together without stepping on each other. I don't think I could describe it in so many words, but I'm getting a feel for the kind of stuff he likes to play, and I'm working out ways to play around it without getting in his way. He appears to be doing the same with regard to me, so it's starting to gel.

[mathieu76]

In most cases, better to avoid the same type of comping as the piano in the same time. Because we share about the same frequency range the whole sound gets 'muddy'. However playing comping a la Freddy Green on swing tunes blends really well with other instruments yet stands out from them. One certain tunes, light finger style arpeggios can be very nice and stands out also. When it comes to bossa as guitarists we are the 'boss', just because Gilberto/Baden Powell style guitar comping sounds so much better than a piano. Then I would expect my piano player to stand more in the background, for a change.

[Jazzism]

another thing is to just get out of their way. Play up high and use a sparse comp rhythm to add to what the piano player is doing

funny thing is this is very rarely reciprocated, but it's easier for a pianist to do since they have a greater range. I was playing last year with a pick up group at the Singapore jazz festival. The pianist typically was very busy and when someone suggested that we could both comp if he played everything he was doing an octave higher, he complained and said ' but I can't play as much' YES! EXACTLY. I just laughed at him.

agree with previous posters, change texture (smaller voicings), one note comping (guide tone lines)
another thing guitar is a percussive instrument, treat it like a drum. With Latin tunes there's a ton of rhythms you can steal from percussionists and just play on muted string, cascara/ clave patterns, I've got a fake Cuica sound, agogo bell etc, granted, I haven't been able to be that expansive with swing tunes, but there's arguably less percussion vocabulary to steal from in this context.
cheers!

[Jazzism]

Maybe it's the piano player. I'm really struck by this video and how well Guaraldi comps behind this guitarist. It's not a volume or range/register thing only either. The phrasing also stays out of the of the guitarist's. Really tasty, and seems like he can actually play MORE, because of this fact, without overshadowing. Really extraordinary:

Yep, that's a masterclass in interactive comping right there!

[Nate Miller]

funny thing is this is very rarely reciprocated, but it's easier for a pianist to do since they have a greater range. I was playing last year with a pick up group at the Singapore jazz festival. The pianist typically was very busy and when someone suggested that we could both comp if he played everything he was doing an octave higher, he complained and said ' but I can't play as much' YES! EXACTLY. I just laughed at him.

yea, but it was a French Canadian B3 player I was playing with at the time that was talking with me about the way Kenny Burrell and Jimmy Smith played together, so if the B3 player is suggesting it, changes are really good he's going to pick up on it when you do it.

That's my experience anyway

The thing is that a pick up session is pretty hopeless to start.

you know how I play with piano players?

I spend time hanging out with them. I go over to their house. Meet their wives, their kids. Back when I was younger we'd shoot hoops together, that sort of stuff

you have to get to know each other so you can anticipate each other. This might be something that really is what separates the great ones from the rest of us. I saw Tal Farlow play with my teacher Jack Petersen and Jack was taking a solo. Jack played a single line lick and Tal caught it and played a chord melody of the lick as Jack was playing it. Tal had great ears, but he also had a great sense of what the other musician was doing and where he was going. That's what you have to have between a piano player and a guitar player for it to work.

In my experience, though, it takes time playing together for us mortals to build that sense of anticipation between players

[PaulD]

This thread made me think of an excerpt for "The Book of Jobbing" (translated from the original Sumerian by Steven Hashimoto):

'...And Noah did say, "As you command, Lord. And what next?"...

..."Next shall be the Piano Player. And he shall play as if he has twenty fingers, and he shall ply Substitute upon Substitute, until no man may name the Chord, and he will not be helpful. Furthermore, he shall always be Late. And he shall always be trying out New Gear, of which he has no knowledge."

And Noah did wonder aloud, "Lord, Great is thy Wisdom!"

"Next shall be the Guitar Player. And he shall be a Rock Guitar Player. And he shall be Loud, and he shall sing 'Old Time Rock n' Roll'. Also shall he know not The Page, and so shall rely upon his Ears, which have been damaged by exposure to High Sound Pressure Levels. For the Guitarists who Read shall already be playing Shows, and will be making the Big Shekels."
"And his Tux shall be the Rattiest."'

[Boston Joe]

This thread made me think of an excerpt for "The Book of Jobbing" (translated from the original Sumerian by Steven Hashimoto):

'...And Noah did say, "As you command, Lord. And what next?"...

..."Next shall be the Piano Player. And he shall play as if he has twenty fingers, and he shall ply Substitute upon Substitute, until no man may name the Chord, and he will not be helpful. Furthermore, he shall always be Late. And he shall always be trying out New Gear, of which he has no knowledge."

And Noah did wonder aloud, "Lord, Great is thy Wisdom!"

"Next shall be the Guitar Player. And he shall be a Rock Guitar Player. And he shall be Loud, and he shall sing 'Old Time Rock n' Roll'. Also shall he know not The Page, and so shall rely upon his Ears, which have been damaged by exposure to High Sound Pressure Levels. For the Guitarists who Read shall already be playing Shows, and will be making the Big Shekels."
"And his Tux shall be the Rattiest."'

HAH! Reminds me of this one:

In the beginning there was a bass. It was a Fender, probably a Precision, but it could have been a Jazz - nobody knows. Anyway, it was very old... definitely pre-C.B.S.

And God looked down upon it and saw that it was good. He saw that it was very good in fact, and couldn't be improved on at all (until alembic.) And so He let it be and He created a man to play the bass.

And lo the man looked upon the bass, which was a beautiful 'sunburst' red, and he loved it. He played upon the open E string and the note rang through the earth and reverberated throughout the firmaments (thus reverb came to be.) And it was good. And God heard that it was good and He smiled at his handiwork.

Then in the course of time, the man came to slap upon the bass. And lo it was funky.

And God heard this funkiness and He said, "Go man, go." And it was good.

And more time passed, and, having little else to do, the man came to practice upon the bass. And lo, the man came to have upon him a great set of chops. And he did play faster and faster until the notes rippled like a breeze through the heavens.

And God heard this sound which sounded something like the wind, which He had created earlier. It also sounded something like the movement of furniture, which He hadn't even created yet, and He was not so pleased. And He spoke to the man, saying "Don't do that!"

Now the man heard the voice of God, but he was so excited about his new ability that he slapped upon the bass a blizzard of funky notes. And the heavens shook with the sound, and the Angels ran about in confusion. (Some of the Angels started to dance, but that's another story.)

And God heard this - how could He miss it - and lo He became Bugged. And He spoke to the man, and He said, "Listen man, if I wanted Jimi Hendrix I would have created the guitar. Stick to the bass parts."

And the man heard the voice of God, and he knew not to mess with it. But now he had upon him a passion for playing fast and high. The man took the frets off of the bass which God had created. And the man did slide his fingers upon the fretless fingerboard and play melodies high upon the neck. And, in his excitement, the man did forget the commandment of the Lord, and he played a frenzy of high melodies and blindingly fast licks. And the heavens rocked with the assault and the earth shook, rattled, and rolled.

Now God's wrath was great. And His voice was thunder as He spoke to the man.

And He said, "O.K. for you, pal. You have not heeded My word. Lo, I shall create a soprano saxophone and it shall play higher than you can even think of."

"And from out of the chaos I shall bring forth the drums. And they shall play so many notes thine head shall ache, and I shall make you to always stand next to the drummer."

"You think you're loud? I shall create a stack of Marshall guitar amps to make thine ears bleed. And I shall send down upon the earth other instruments, and lo, they shall all be able to play higher and faster than the bass."

"And for all the days of man, your curse shall be this; that all the other musicians shall look to you, the bass player, for the low notes. And if you play too high or fast all the other musicians shall say "Wow" but really they shall hate it. And they shall tell you you're ready for your solo career, and find other bass players for their bands. And for all your days if you want to play your fancy licks you shall have to sneak them in like a thief in the night."

"And if you finally do get to play a solo, everyone shall leave the bandstand and go to the bar for a drink."

Yea, and it was so.