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Hey all. I recently bought the Fareed Haque "comping survival guide" video on TrueFire. It's a pretty common-sensical approach to comping and chord construction. It's pretty simiar to Steve Kahn's method, where you start with the guide tones and then add extensions. Fareed is a good teacher and lays the material out very logically and with lots of playing examples. Good stuff and worth a look.
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03-11-2016 10:31 AM
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I liked this course a lot. I did not get past the first section, which addresses Blues comping, but just that section gave me a lot of confidence in comping over Blues.
Originally Posted by Boston Joe
I can see the structure and hear the sounds, especially the little moving voices as you add and take away extensions. You are able to "build" your own chords according to your ear.Last edited by AlsoRan; 03-11-2016 at 10:57 AM.
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He gets into I VI II V, II V I, and V/IV IV bVII I progressions later on. But the basics of the method are pretty easy to adapt on your own. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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I like his courses as well. I have been spending time with the improvisation (Blue Bossa) and Bossa Nova courses as well.
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Yeah. Originally Posted by Boston Joe
I looked at the lessons, and they are very encouraging. I just had so stop where I was. I am determined to get these Blues down before I go back to learning the other progressions, like those with ii-V and the like.
Believe me, I am holding on to this DVD-rom lesson!
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I'm working on the blues stuff now as well, but I'm also trying to apply the "guide tones only" approach to other tunes that I'm working on. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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Mmm. I was thinking of buying this a while back but ended up buying a couple of Joseph Alexander books. Worth a look?
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Depends what you're looking for, I guess. It's a very practical course, and very oriented towards ensemble playing. He doesn't get very deep into the theoretical weeds, but his method does give you a springboard for further exploration. If you're looking for that kind of thing, it's worth a look. If you're looking for something that's going to give you a lot of exotic voicings and stuff, then maybe not so much. Originally Posted by Jebuskryst
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Thanks BJ. You saved me a few beans. I think I'll pass. I'm looking for a good comping video/course in the style of Joe Pass where I can accompany myself singing over "exotic voicings and stuff".
I'll keep looking
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OK, Yes. He does briefly touch on full voicings and accompanying singers and stuff, but it's not the main focus, so that's probably a good call. Originally Posted by Jebuskryst
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"Exotic voicings and stuff" Originally Posted by Jebuskryst
What does that even mean ?
Fareed's thing is to learn how to come up with the guide tones ( or, in the case of major seventh chords, swapping out the sixth for the seventh ) either Freddie Green style (adding the root + Guide tones ) or rootless guide tones plus one or two extensions/tensions. With regard to the latter, that means adding The 5th, #5, the 13th, b13, 11th, #11, b9, 9, And/or #9.
I mean, what else can you put in there that covers the essential functional and tension notes associated with the basic functional harmony. I mean short of stuff like atonal cluster voicings. Please advise me if I've missed a note above.
He is a great player, an excellent teacher and his knowledge of comping is deep, elegant, elastic, and allows for, critically most important, creating interesting melodies and movement while comping with the top voice using all possibilities of movements with regard to the extensions and tensions that does not get in the way of the bass player.
It's perfectly suited for comping for voice .
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Originally Posted by Jebuskryst
Joe Pass for the most part used very standard, easy to grab chords. It's what he did WITH them.
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It means he gives you the basics. 3rds, 7ths, and options for things to add to them. He's not trying to get you to disguise what you're doing, and he's not teaching you to reharmonize songs. (Don't read too much into "exotic". I'm given to hyperbole.) Originally Posted by NSJ
Can you use his system for accompanying a singer? Sure. But that's not how the course is pitched.
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He spends time at the beginning talking about staying out of the bass player's territory, and then staying away from high notes covered by piano players and other instrumentalists. He's then playing on the middle two strings. (Seems to be opposite of what you want for a guitar and singer with no other instruments.)
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I seem to remember that he does stray into using the 5th and 6th strings at certain points, as well as the 1 and 2.
For the 5th and 6th strings, he discusses tritone subs and he even has a section on walking bass.
For the 1st and 2nd strings, he goes over his "moving voices" technique. As he struck the chords, he might move the voice on sting number one around while keeping the note on the second string stationary. He also reversed it by keeping the note on the first string stationary. He even had a section in which both voices moved.
This, in effect, created a little mini melody/comping riff.
I thought it was pretty smart stuff. He never put much effort into naming the chords although as you know, a chord can having many names, depending on its function.
The main thing I got was that he wanted you to hear the sound and let your ear guide you. All the while, you have the "safe fallback" of the 3rds and 7ths to default to if you get lost. This ensured you had the proper chord quality for the progression you were playing.
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I bought it. I tried it. It was helpful -- maybe not revelatory, but helpful.
"More from less" was a lesson I needed at that point. It still is and I bet it will be again tomorrow!
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Yes. It's like the old joke: "How do create a sculpture of an elephant? Get a block of marble and cut away everything that doesn't look like an elephant." Originally Posted by Sam Sherry
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I would simply ask those who are seeking a way to comp behind a vocalist to define what exactly that means ? Further, how is this method incompatible or "too simple"?
First of all, practically nobody plays all six strings, many times not even five strings. Almost all the drop two or drop three chords are four strings only .
What Fareed presents with his three and four note voicings (and also what Tim Lerch has talked about using his three nother voicings) can be exceptionally rich and complex ( as I pointed out, he presents away to play with every possible chord tone -extension and tension ---5th, #5, 9, b9, #9, 13, b13, 11, #11) involving perfect voice leading with oblique, contrary or parallel motion between the chords and the melody.
Regarding substitutions, he presents two very important ones: the tritone sub and the secondary dominant; he even combines both of them in one move, taking the tritone sub e of the secondary dominant. You understand very easily why the three chord can be a dominant, when introduces the six chord.
Finally, he presents the all important concept of creating good melodies on the fly and in improvised manner while maintaining voice leading and proper chord movement, which is the essence of great comping. And as a bonus they can be used as a great methodology for a chord solo.
So I again, I would ask: what does it mean to comp behind a singer and why is this program or Tim Lerch's similar program incompatible with that? I would submit they are fully compatible.Last edited by NSJ; 03-17-2016 at 01:26 PM.
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They're not incompatible. I just think that if you're looking to learn to comp behind singers, there's probably better-presented material out there (note that I said "better-presented", not "better"). Fareed's course is specifically targeted towards playing in ensemble situation. Originally Posted by NSJ
That said, if you go through the entire course, and develop the ideas, you'd probably be fine in just about any situation.
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Hi,
I started with jazz some weeks ago learning licks (from 50 Jazz-Blues Hamburger work)
I would like to start with comping stuff.
I am thinking in Vignola (123 Chord Melody) and Fareed (Comping Survival)
Which do you recommend me?Last edited by Aceituna; 03-20-2016 at 12:08 PM.
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I don't know Vignola, so I can't say. Originally Posted by Aceituna
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Thank you Joe Originally Posted by Boston Joe
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Frank Vignola just released a comping course for 30 pretty much MUST KNOW standards on TF. Pretty much nuts and bolts, he plays 2 to 3 choruses on each, starting with basic swing style on the first chorus ( either Freddie Green shell voicings or the conventional drop 2 or drop threes we all pretty much know or should know ) , and then altering the rhythm, voicing or comping style for the remaining one or two choruses.
I find it to be a very good refresher course on the fundamentals, not a step-by-step how to, but good basic playalongs to either emulate or to solo over .
I find that this is basic stuff everyone has to fully internalize . Plus, as a bonus, you will know how to play essential comps over 30 standards .
Nothing earth shattering or advanced by any means, but building block bread and butter essential stuff we really need to get our shit together on .
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Well you left out one of my personal favorites, the b5! Originally Posted by NSJ
I just started in on the Fareed course a few weeks ago and it's doing a good job of helping me focus on learning and remembering the names of the chords I'm playing (as opposed to simply playing everything by ear, which is how I've been doing it for decades).
In that respect, I'm finding it a very tight, efficient, and effective course - a type of "learn while you go" process. I've failed more times than I care to remember trying to memorize the names of chords in order to apply them to tunes later.
Fareed's concept of making yourself familiar with chord names based only on the core notes, or "guide tones" as he calls them, then building any extentions and/or bass notes outward from there, I am finding is a very good substitute to the more traditional method of "memorize these 50 chords and apply them to these 12 standard tunes" approach. That has never ever worked for me, not the least reason being because the chords are inevitably arbitrarily assigned, and therefore don't necessarily conform with the tunes in any particularly meaningful, musical way.
By "building your own chords", as it were, I am finding that I am both building a repertoire of meaningful (to me), useful chords, *and* being able to apply those chords to tunes I am learning immediately and simultaneously.
I'm actually pretty glad that I found this course; since I've only just started with it, I hope that I find it to be as helpful for me as I imagine it will be. Time will tell, of course.Last edited by T100_guy; 04-23-2016 at 01:34 PM.
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I have just ordered it and had a quick look at Satin Doll and All of Me. Originally Posted by NSJ
They look good so now I am armed with a bottle of wine, my guitar and an hour to spare.....
Happy days.
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