Looking for the best book on creating chord movement to use on standards

[mjirish]

Reading can open up the world of "other musicians" to you. It is a big universe out there!

[targuit]

Christiann - Why use a classical guitar method to learn to read notation, beyond learning good technique? You said right in the same post - "... I find classical guitar music quite a lot easier to sight read than jazz..." Exactamento... Leaving aside the semantics of "sight reading" versus "reading notation", for someone who has difficulty learning to read notation, learning "guitar music" is a good first step. Then, after the first week it is a mandatory diet of Giant Steps until you get sick and want to burn your guitar for firewood.

Notation is notation. It is wrong to sugar coat it. It takes a while to learn to read fluently. I began learning to read notation in grade school in school choirs even before I started classical guitar lessons at twelve. I am glad I learned early - I've read notation nearly every day since.

Want to learn to read notation? Get an inexpensive version of a notation software program like Sibelius and enter notes with a synth keyboard connected via USB and the proper drivers. Hit key - see note on staff. Rinse and repeat. My legacy G7 version even has a 'virtual guitar fretboard' so you can enter notes like playing chords or single notes on your guitar.

[Reg]

Yea... this thread is getting long... but seems to be going well, maybe helping players learn about comping, which is generally big wall for most.

Even the Grasso vids gets pretty weak during his in time playing, not very great use of time etc... and it did seem like a memorized performance...most players just don't have good time and generally don't know how to develop time... let alone know what to do with time, musically.

Obviously... all aspects of music are important and their all going on all the time. You can't fake your way for very long. You can memorize only so much and eventually you need to be able to play... using all the skills that you develop.

mjirish has made some great comments... rhythm, form, reading etc... and the direction of developing your ears, that's a given right... all the aspects of playing are givens. All the BS about your ears are what plays not your fingers etc... you need to work on all aspects and find a balance that works for you. Learning to play the instrument and being able to perform doesn't come to you.... you need to go get it.

When performing jazz tunes... and learning to comp for those jazz tunes, you need to develop Chord Patterns, not just basic chords. Those chords need to turn into chord patterns. Chord Patterns are different series or patterns of chords that imply the tonal area of the moment.... you have a bar of Cmaj7.... you need chord patterns that will imply, sound like that Cmaj7. Those chord patterns will use Melodic, harmonic, rhythmic and spatial, (form), aspects of your playing.

I've been talking about these for 5 or 6 years... maybe it's time to actually get it together.

Those chord patterns are what's going to create time... a groove etc... the harmony will create movement while still implying the basic tonality of the moment with reference to the overall tune. The lead line you play will also create time with accent patterns... create harmonic interest and movement with embellishments that be organized to also create Form... and the style of what your playing.

You ears are only as good as they have been taught... your not magic... we all want to believe we're different, all human beings are magic, we're all perfect, (relative use of term), but we're not devine.

A new year is as good as any for an excuse to have a plan for developing your musicianship.

[matt.guitarteacher]

When performing jazz tunes... and learning to comp for those jazz tunes, you need to develop Chord Patterns, not just basic chords. Those chords need to turn into chord patterns. Chord Patterns are different series or patterns of chords that imply the tonal area of the moment.... you have a bar of Cmaj7.... you need chord patterns that will imply, sound like that Cmaj7. Those chord patterns will use Melodic, harmonic, rhythmic and spatial, (form), aspects of your playing.

I've been talking about these for 5 or 6 years... maybe it's time to actually get it together.

Those chord patterns are what's going to create time... a groove etc... the harmony will create movement while still implying the basic tonality of the moment with reference to the overall tune. The lead line you play will also create time with accent patterns... create harmonic interest and movement with embellishments that be organized to also create Form... and the style of what your playing.

Think this sounds like a great topic for a 2016 Reg thread. :-)

I've really gotten a lot out of your reference fingerings for melodic playing in 7 positions. It's done a lot to improve my playing, personally.

I'd really be interested in the same type of reference work for harmony, as well... lead line voicings for doing what you're talking about. Like you're always talking about with melodic (and all areas of) playing, you can't really work on the concepts if you don't have it under your fingers somewhat already. Maybe a thread on reference voicings for lead line playing? Maybe even just your philosophy for developing them?

I can get my head around major scale versions of this pretty well, but when it comes to melodic minor, a little harder for me to decide how to organize it ? So much of melodic minor isn't functional to minor? Probably not even saying that right. I suppose minor is a good place to start though?

Anyway, best wishes for 2016.

[SeanZ]

Hi Reg,

When you refer to chord patterns would those be the same as a 'cadence' i.e. II-V-I etc. Perhaps if you have time you could write out a few 'patterns' numerically that would be good to practice in all keys?

thanks again for all you contribute and Happy New Year!

[SeanZ]

Hi Matt,

You wrote: "I've really gotten a lot out of your reference fingerings for melodic playing in 7 positions. It's done a lot to improve my playing, personally. "

Could you point me toward where to find Reg's 'reference fingerings'?

Happy New Year!

[55bar]

Hi Reg,

When you refer to chord patterns would those be the same as a 'cadence' i.e. II-V-I etc. Perhaps if you have time you could write out a few 'patterns' numerically that would be good to practice in all keys?

thanks again for all you contribute and Happy New Year!

Hi Sean,

Check out the thread "live at the speed of jazz"

Everything you need there.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Hi Matt,

You wrote: "I've really gotten a lot out of your reference fingerings for melodic playing in 7 positions. It's done a lot to improve my playing, personally. "

Could you point me toward where to find Reg's 'reference fingerings'?

Happy New Year!

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/showthread.php?p=238326

[Reg]

OK... I'm going to give out a lot of my personal playing BS. This is my personal approach to comping,(really everything), it's the good shit... you won't get this from your teachers etc...

It's not complicated... but it does take good technical skills to use. It's not really for beginners, but if your trying to play jazz... your not a beginner, right.

I'll start with basic relationships... simple, I generally use basic Diatonic relationships.... it's just I change the diatonic relationships a lot, and have multiple diatonic relationships going on all the time.

The relationships have basic functional value... that functional value is how much the chord(s) wants to move in the harmonic situations. I generally use typical Tonic, Subdominant and Dominant terms and relationships. But I don't limit their use to standard Major/ Minor Functional Harmony.... which is basically based on Modal relationships of Ionian.

I've expanded their usage to work better in jazz situations... performance situations, with the ability to verbally explain using common musical terminology. I try and keep it simple.... which is what it is.

The basic reference is always the tonal target.... if the tune is in Bb, that is the basic reference, even when I expand the harmony and create new tonal targets... micro tonal relationships.... the basic reference is still Bbmaj.

Some tunes or compositions have more than one reference, but that's not the norm. I don't want to recreate the tune or composition... I want to just create more layers for performance. Jazz generally isn't about playing the same thing over and over etc...

So the starting comping reference is Diatonic Relationships... which generally implies keeping the same functional value... keeping the energy to power chordal movement the same as tonal reference.

I'm sure most of you understand basic diatonic harmony....

Tonic.............. Imaj7. III-7, VI-7
Subdominant....II-7, IVmaj7
Dominant.........V7 , VII-7b5

So I've expanded this basic harmonic relationship...

Another note... almost everything is based on roots, they don't need to be played, but their implied.

So... I generally use chords a 3rd above and a 3rd below as Tonic, and expand this relationship to all modal harmonic relationships... example...

Cmaj7... diatonic subs or chords that don't change the function or don't create anymore movement value.
Would be E-7 and A-7

D-7....... Fmaj7 and B-7b5
E-7....... G7 and Cmaj7
Fmaj7..... A-7 and D-7
G7...........B-7b5 and E-7
A-7.........Cmaj7 and Fmaj7
B-7b5..... D-7 and G7

This becomes something like mixing using... basic triads and inversions with functional diatonic modal chord relationships.

I create expanded Diatonic chordal relationships... It might be easier to think of as a collections of Subs. And the subs are designed from an organized tonal type of relationship.

And part of the application... how you use these chords is the voicings... Their all designed from the top down.

The top note and the melody or lead line, (the lead line doesn't always need to be voiced, somewhat like when your playing chord melodies)... that line you create from these voivings... is more important than how you fill the lower notes.

as long as the implication from how you voice below works with the tonal reference, and in this basic example, that would be the expanded Diatonic organized.

Somewhat like how modal comping works... your careful to not imply chordal tendencies that take the tonal reference too far away from what your trying to do.

This is my basic starting reference... there are a few more levels that expand and open other harmonic doors ... how I add other relationships to this basic reference...I generally stretch the tonal targets, with modal Interchange, different jazz related chordal relationships. I use modal interchange to access MM which helps me organized how I use blue notes.

And as I use to say... I use sub of subs... by that I mean, I'll make a sub or different expanded Diatonic chord as a micro Tonal Target and create a micro expanded Diatonic references, which opens my access to different chord patterns. This becomes tricky... it's easy to crash and burn... you can't just rhythmically keep it together.

Anyway... here are some straight expanded voicings I use... I'll start with Maj. Amaj7

X X 4 4 5 5.........,.Amaj

X X 7 9 9 9...........C#min or F#min

X X 11 11 12 12....Amaj

X X 14 14 14 16.....F#min or C#min

X X 19 18 17 19..... Amaj... or

So there are a ton of different voicings that can be voiced below that basic lead line... just an Ab arpeggio. And part of the application or how I use is what I imply harmonically with those voicings.

I can alter notes in and change the lead line to imply different styles and feels.

This style of comping is designed around using 7 position fingerings, anywhere on the neck I play a lead lines... I can voice how I choose harmonically without watching...and it generally changes a lot. I obviously have typical lead line chord patterns I like... but they're easily altered to work in different types of music

So A Min could be...

X X 5 5 5 5

X X 10 9 8 8

X X 10 12 12 12

X X 14 14 13 15... which could become

X X 5 5 5 7
X X 10 9 8 10
X X 12 12 12 14
X X 14 14 15 15
X X 17 16 15 17

So you can obviously fill in between the arpeggios... maybe even create a cool lead line you like... I generally create groove lines... And I usually move out of that expanded Diatonic area for harmony to voice weak side melodic notes, I create a micro harmonic pattern within the basic Diatonic area.

This starts to get somewhat more complicated, usually from not being able to play voicings somewhat as needed to imply the harmony you want or hear. And generally your creating as you play, at least that's when it becomes more fun and generally brings the focus and energy levels up.... which generally result in better performances.

In live settings... the level becomes more defined, band locks in, not just performing something memorized, your interacting and responding... playing in a Jazz style.

But... I'm not playing anything out or new... Some players just like different voicings from different references, and want to just throw them together... the more out the better. It's cool, but personally I believe you need to be able to play the basic simple stuff first.
I'll try and get some vids up... it's pretty easy to hear... even if you don't really understand the organization. But you will, feel free to push more info out of me... I do understand most of this BS... I usually just don't break it down well enough.

[MarkRhodes]

OK... I'm going to give out a lot of my personal playing BS. This is my personal approach to comping,(really everything), it's the good shit... you won't get this from your teachers etc...

.

Thanks, Reg! I'm going to print this out and put it on my music stand, mull it over when working on tunes and wondering how to make the comping more active. You're a generous man and I appreciate that, especially since what you're passing along is so valuable.

[Irez87]

You ears are only as good as they have been taught... your not magic... we all want to believe we're different, all human beings are magic, we're all perfect, (relative use of term), but we're not devine.

A new year is as good as any for an excuse to have a plan for developing your musicianship.

That really is the ticket. Your ears...

I'm glad some people are trying out the methods I've shared (Banacos)

I find that to be true, Reg. It all comes down to developing how you hear because that effects how you respond.

Time

Feel

Harmony

Melody

Thine own ear be true...

[SeanZ]

thank you so much Reg. Happy New Year!

[matt.guitarteacher]

Very cool, Reg.

Tonic.............. Imaj7. III-7, VI-7

Playing off the VI-7 is one of the few which I actually hear pretty well now and can somewhat work with. Very interested in working on some of these others and hearing your examples. Thanks so much!

This starts to get somewhat more complicated, usually from not being able to play voicings somewhat as needed to imply the harmony you want or hear.

Yeah, that....for me, definitely.

[destinytot]

OK... I'm going to give out a lot of my personal playing BS. This is my personal approach to comping,(really everything), it's the good shit... you won't get this from your teachers etc...

Thank you, Reg! Happy New Year to you - and everyone!

[55bar]

OK... I'm going to give out a lot of my personal playing BS. This is my personal approach to comping,(really everything), it's the good shit... you won't get this from your teachers etc...

It's not complicated... but it does take good technical skills to use. It's not really for beginners, but if your trying to play jazz... your not a beginner, right.

I'll start with basic relationships... simple, I generally use basic Diatonic relationships.... it's just I change the diatonic relationships a lot, and have multiple diatonic relationships going on all the time.

The relationships have basic functional value... that functional value is how much the chord(s) wants to move in the harmonic situations. I generally use typical Tonic, Subdominant and Dominant terms and relationships. But I don't limit their use to standard Major/ Minor Functional Harmony.... which is basically based on Modal relationships of Ionian.

I've expanded their usage to work better in jazz situations... performance situations, with the ability to verbally explain using common musical terminology. I try and keep it simple.... which is what it is.

The basic reference is always the tonal target.... if the tune is in Bb, that is the basic reference, even when I expand the harmony and create new tonal targets... micro tonal relationships.... the basic reference is still Bbmaj.

Some tunes or compositions have more than one reference, but that's not the norm. I don't want to recreate the tune or composition... I want to just create more layers for performance. Jazz generally isn't about playing the same thing over and over etc...

So the starting comping reference is Diatonic Relationships... which generally implies keeping the same functional value... keeping the energy to power chordal movement the same as tonal reference.

I'm sure most of you understand basic diatonic harmony....

Tonic.............. Imaj7. III-7, VI-7
Subdominant....II-7, IVmaj7
Dominant.........V7 , VII-7b5

So I've expanded this basic harmonic relationship...

Another note... almost everything is based on roots, they don't need to be played, but their implied.

So... I generally use chords a 3rd above and a 3rd below as Tonic, and expand this relationship to all modal harmonic relationships... example...

Cmaj7... diatonic subs or chords that don't change the function or don't create anymore movement value.
Would be E-7 and A-7

D-7....... Fmaj7 and B-7b5
E-7....... G7 and Cmaj7
Fmaj7..... A-7 and D-7
G7...........B-7b5 and E-7
A-7.........Cmaj7 and Fmaj7
B-7b5..... D-7 and G7

This becomes something like mixing using... basic triads and inversions with functional diatonic modal chord relationships.

I create expanded Diatonic chordal relationships... It might be easier to think of as a collections of Subs. And the subs are designed from an organized tonal type of relationship.

And part of the application... how you use these chords is the voicings... Their all designed from the top down.

The top note and the melody or lead line, (the lead line doesn't always need to be voiced, somewhat like when your playing chord melodies)... that line you create from these voivings... is more important than how you fill the lower notes.

as long as the implication from how you voice below works with the tonal reference, and in this basic example, that would be the expanded Diatonic organized.

Somewhat like how modal comping works... your careful to not imply chordal tendencies that take the tonal reference too far away from what your trying to do.

This is my basic starting reference... there are a few more levels that expand and open other harmonic doors ... how I add other relationships to this basic reference...I generally stretch the tonal targets, with modal Interchange, different jazz related chordal relationships. I use modal interchange to access MM which helps me organized how I use blue notes.

And as I use to say... I use sub of subs... by that I mean, I'll make a sub or different expanded Diatonic chord as a micro Tonal Target and create a micro expanded Diatonic references, which opens my access to different chord patterns. This becomes tricky... it's easy to crash and burn... you can't just rhythmically keep it together.

Anyway... here are some straight expanded voicings I use... I'll start with Maj. Amaj7

X X 4 4 5 5.........,.Amaj

X X 7 9 9 9...........Bmin or F#min

X X 11 11 12 12....Amaj

X X 14 14 14 16.....F#min or Bmin

X X 19 18 17 19..... Amaj... or

So there are a ton of different voicings that can be voiced below that basic lead line... just an Ab arpeggio. And part of the application or how I use is what I imply harmonically with those voicings.

I can alter notes in and change the lead line to imply different styles and feels.

This style of comping is designed around using 7 position fingerings, anywhere on the neck I play a lead lines... I can voice how I choose harmonically without watching...and it generally changes a lot. I obviously have typical lead line chord patterns I like... but they're easily altered to work in different types of music

So A Min could be...

X X 5 5 5 5

X X 10 9 8 8

X X 10 12 12 12

X X 14 14 13 15... which could become

X X 5 5 5 7
X X 10 9 8 10
X X 12 12 12 14
X X 14 14 15 15
X X 17 16 15 17

So you can obviously fill in between the arpeggios... maybe even create a cool lead line you like... I generally create groove lines... And I usually move out of that expanded Diatonic area for harmony to voice weak side melodic notes, I create a micro harmonic pattern within the basic Diatonic area.

This starts to get somewhat more complicated, usually from not being able to play voicings somewhat as needed to imply the harmony you want or hear. And generally your creating as you play, at least that's when it becomes more fun and generally brings the focus and energy levels up.... which generally result in better performances.

In live settings... the level becomes more defined, band locks in, not just performing something memorized, your interacting and responding... playing in a Jazz style.

But... I'm not playing anything out or new... Some players just like different voicings from different references, and want to just throw them together... the more out the better. It's cool, but personally I believe you need to be able to play the basic simple stuff first.
I'll try and get some vids up... it's pretty easy to hear... even if you don't really understand the organization. But you will, feel free to push more info out of me... I do understand most of this BS... I usually just don't break it down well enough.

Reg,

Am I being dense did you mean "an A arpeggio"?

[Reg]

cool... so Irez.. yea the ears are important... but there is a lot of common practice... jazz harmonic common practice. You can crash and burn at many gigs etc... if your not aware of what's being implied besides what we personally believe is going on. Your ears make way more mistakes than you might believe...

55bar... not sure... the arpeggio reference is in reference to the lead line which in my examples is just a simple arpeggio. Obviously when comping... your rarely going to just use arpeggios, just as when soloing.

Here's a basic example ... I took the basic voicings and transposed them around and used a few bars from Stella, different key... sorry was on the fly.

The lead line is again simple, just a repeated couple of notes... and changes the tonal reference below. Don't get hung up or take this example for more than it is.... I'm just showing an example how I might use this expanded diatonic concept while comping through a tune.

[christianm77]

OK... I'm going to give out a lot of my personal playing BS. This is my personal approach to comping,(really everything), it's the good shit... you won't get this from your teachers etc...

...

But... I'm not playing anything out or new... Some players just like different voicings from different references, and want to just throw them together... the more out the better. It's cool, but personally I believe you need to be able to play the basic simple stuff first.

I'll try and get some vids up... it's pretty easy to hear... even if you don't really understand the organization. But you will, feel free to push more info out of me... I do understand most of this BS... I usually just don't break it down well enough.

Thanks for writing all of that out Reg. FWIW, this is kind of how I think about it, too.

I see Dominant as intimately linked to Subdominant. It's not a simple relationship though....

[Irez87]

Reg,

I get what you are saying, of course you have to know what is going on. But you got to understand what is going on aurally, or all that theory will leave you in the leaf pile... know what I mean.

I want to challenge the thread again... as I often do... friendly challenge.

Reg, you, and many others on the thread think of harmonic movement as chord voicing to chord voicing?

Just wanted to clarify.

I am getting myself into the habit of thinking in chordal fragments. Triads, Dyads, a bass line, a tenor line.

I am reading more and more about my favorite arrangers. Billy Strayhorn, Oliver Nelson, Bill Holman. They didn't think in "ii-V's" as Barry Harris said. They thought in simultaneous melodic movement. When the movement becomes simultaneous, then you have harmony. That's how George Van Ep's put it, and it seems like his philosophy has been forgotten.

So I challenge you to do exercises that expose the inner melody within the voicings you all use. Don't just think of the top soprano line.

Food for thought, by the great Howard Alden (why did you move ) :

Look at around at the 2:00 mark, this is a George Van Eps idea that he simplified. I found it in the GVE volumes and he goes to town with this idea.

Then listen to Jimmy Wyble.

I know, people will say that this is a solo guitar "thing". I disagree, if you use your ear and really respond to the soloist, this won't be a "solo guitar thing". It might be the "thing" that gets you to turn heads at jams and get hired.

[targuit]

Where did Howard move to?

[Irez87]

Arizona...

Right?

[Reg]

Hi Irez87... I'm not sure you do. I always have said... everything is going on all the time... whether you know or hear it.

Melodic or changes... it doesn't make any difference... it's just the performance.

Skip the leaf pile analogies... etc. The only reason your ears don't get something is because you don't have a reference for that something to relate to. You can trial and error your ears to death... teach them aurally through memorization... and you going to have lots of holes... still not be able to hear and perform many aspects of that "something".

I not sure why you would take ...calling the lead line... the most important note in this style of comping... to becoming the only concept. If that's the case... which it is not, then you would be more in the direction of where your trying to go...fragments etc... melodic comping, which is also an approach. You ever play back ground lines, montunos different setting of performance imply different styles, levels and how many notes you play when comping.

My point is to learn how to comp. learn comping concepts. In jazz you need to learn how to create harmonic movement... how you choose to realize that movement is part of learning how to perform.

Again like I've always said... there are basically three approaches...
1) understand
2) memorize and copy
3) both

Most don't have the abilities to use comping performance concepts and apply them in different setting... at will... live.

I try and teach how to develop these abilities... it doesn't come from memorizing and developing your ears. It comes from having technical skills on your instrument and understanding what... in this thread... comping is.

How does it become when you understand... you don't have ears, or visaversa... you need both.

I do have ears... and know how to use them... who cares. I'm not trying to promote me... I'm trying to help members of this form...

Again how you choose to perform with those understandings... is your choice. Why would you challenge me to play something... I don't really get it. You want too help the thread with another approach to comping... please do. Post some examples... your examples... maybe even up to speed. Remember... comping concept and performance of that concept are different skills.

Hey Christian sounds great... please post some material, I dig your playing. I'm not that great at putting material together... it's always on the fly etc... but from many of your post, you have a cool understanding of jazz and it's history.

I'll post a few more vids with examples today.... not for pumping me up etc... to help

[plasticpigeon]

Reg, your videos are really helpful to me. Often they are fast, and tricky for a beginner like me to follow, and sometimes you do all sorts of great sounding stuff which isn't explained explicitly, but little by little I am picking up lots of valuable approaches from you. i hope you carry on sharing your knowledge with the people on this forum. i for one am really grateful!

[Irez87]

I guess I was a little too challenging...

Reg, I just offered an alternative.

And my ear training, frankly, you don't know what that training looks like. Miles wanted in on the training I do. So did Mike Stern. Do research on Charlie Banacos.

It's another path, that's it. And I am trying to help as well, since I got these methods from other musicians.

Reg, in the past I've said that I've appreciated what you share. In the past, I've also said that you offended me. Right now, I just see anger.

Cool off is all I ask. Music is about the journey. It's about taking the box and thinking outside of it. Taking that box and turning it into an airplane, or a race car. Musicians, in their truest state, are like little kids with beautiful imaginations.

And, for the record, I didn't say that the soprano was the most important line, I said:

So I challenge you to do exercises that expose the inner melody within the voicings you all use. Don't just think of the top soprano line.

If I need to leave the forum again, that's fine. Just don't mince my words. I am trying to help because I am actually a teacher by trade. Doing and teaching aren't mutually exclusive, dig?

[matt.guitarteacher]

So... I generally use chords a 3rd above and a 3rd below as Tonic, and expand this relationship to all modal harmonic relationships... example...

Cmaj7... diatonic subs or chords that don't change the function or don't create anymore movement value.
Would be E-7 and A-7

D-7....... Fmaj7 and B-7b5
E-7....... G7 and Cmaj7
Fmaj7..... A-7 and D-7
G7...........B-7b5 and E-7
A-7.........Cmaj7 and Fmaj7
B-7b5..... D-7 and G7

All very cool. Thanks reg. Probably need to work a good bit on diatonic, myself, though I know the good stuff is beyond. I haven't done enough with VII-7b5 subs. Those open up some great sounds. I find the minor subs a lot easier to use to access outside sounds (with MM). Don't know as much how to work relative major type subs.

Taking the Stella example (not necessarily yours), I really like the MM accessed from G-7 over the E-7b5. I can't really do as much with the C7. how do you approach ? Or what possibilities?

[matt.guitarteacher]

I guess I was a little too challenging...

Reg, I just offered an alternative.

And my ear training, frankly, you don't know what that training looks like. Miles wanted in on the training I do. So did Mike Stern. Do research on Charlie Banacos.

It's another path, that's it. And I am trying to help as well, since I got these methods from other musicians.

Reg, in the past I've said that I've appreciated what you share. In the past, I've also said that you offended me. Right now, I just see anger.

Cool off is all I ask. Music is about the journey. It's about taking the box and thinking outside of it. Taking that box and turning it into an airplane, or a race car. Musicians, in their truest state, are like little kids with beautiful imaginations.

And, for the record, I didn't say that the soprano was the most important line, I said:

So I challenge you to do exercises that expose the inner melody within the voicings you all use. Don't just think of the top soprano line.

If I need to leave the forum again, that's fine. Just don't mince my words. I am trying to help because I am actually a teacher by trade. Doing and teaching aren't mutually exclusive, dig?

There's a point at which preachiness achieves the result of completely marginalizing one's self, regardless of how much skill you have. You've nearly reached THAT point, and I think, without the skill level to back it up. Honestly, this is cringe worthy.

Share your thoughts and opinions. Why the need to challenge? Do we need your tough love, and have you demonstrated the authority to do so without embarrassing yourself ?