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The chords themselves are very easy to play, even the minor 2nd voicings once you get used to the stretches. Steve Herberman uses a similar concept, and we've talked about it during Skype lessons. I have to meet with him in person so I can play in real time with these concepts.
Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
I studied the hell out of George Van Ep's Method for Guitar and still go back to it. I have all of his mechanisms books as well.
The difficult part with this type of comping is that it is movement dependent. You have to always be aware of inner lines and the larger pulse to setup the tensions correctly. All that is guided by the ear, in a way that is similar (I am sure) to how a professional pianist plays accompaniment on a high level jazz gig.
What I love about this method is that the "grips" are so small that I can be more reactive to the soloist. I am working more bass movement into them so I can utilize them in duet settings.
That said, Jeb Patton said something very interesting to me during my first lesson with him.
First, he said he liked my lines... That felt really good to hear.
Then he said that guitarists need to stop using voicings that are in the lower register. He said I should explore the higher registers of the guitar. So I am mixing the low and the high and studying bass movement.
But it all revolves around my ear, and not my fingers.
Ear training is a longer process than learning rote voicings. But I can guarantee that if you ear train enough, those voicings you thought you knew will become brand new adventures to explore.
I often state how I studied with James Chirillo. Maybe it's bragging to some, but I considered myself lucky enough to have that opportunity.
Well, he taught two hour lessons for 100 bucks or so. That is a lot of money, he would usually charge more because it was a two hour lesson
Why two hours? Well, the first hour we didn't even touch our guitars. For an hour to sometimes an hour and a half we would sing solfege, clap rhythms, and play cadences on the piano.
Then, for the latter half the lesson, we would get out our guitars--no amps allowed. He was responsible for making me a fanatic about my tone. He also got me back into Johnny Smith and introduced me to the sounds of Jack Peterson
ME: His tone sounds like a bell
JAMES: [grinning] Yupe. No effects there, just pure guitar.
He was really into classical music and would often stop me to talk about my tone, my string noise, my posture.
But one hour of ear training. Bruce Arnold did and does the same thing, I often bring my guitar and never touch the instrument (Bruce, stop telling me to bring my axe. Bringing a guitar on a NYC subway ain't no joke!)
Train the ear and then everything else will follow. Sight reading? Sight sing it. Technique? You can only play, musically, as fast as you can hear, musically. Comping? Start with dyads and move up from there. If you are doing it right, triads and four note chords will be easier to hear than dyads because more of the chord is there.
If you've got time to practice technique than you've got time to practice ear training and musicianship.
I'm not arguing for it. I'm just stating fact. Your ear is more valuable than your fingers. That's why Django did what he was able to do with only two fingers. His ear was made of gold.
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12-28-2015 09:50 AM
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Granted. We all do. But how many in-depth studies can you focus on at once? I'm working with Richie's chord studies---the 4321 voicings (-which are also 6432 voicings when you flip the note on string 1 to string 6---same note, different octave), playing them up and down the neck in inversions, then cycling through in position (C7, F7, Bb7, etc). Many options for "movement" right there! But that's me. You gotta be you! Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
Yes but I need to be able to play more then single line improv
Ken
I do like Barry Greene and may get the "TWNBAY" workout in five positions---that would increase my fretboard knowledge and give me a 'way in' to doing the same thing with other standards.
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Drop two inversions? Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 12-28-2015 at 03:25 PM.
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Everybody that I have read is nibbling around the edges of the subject, but not quite getting to the meat. Approach chord substitution and reharmonization like an arranger would (Nelson Riddle has already been suggested). Don't think like a guitar player (yet), think like a musician. The guitar is just the tool. Don't get too hung up on it. The two most important things are the 1) melody) and 2) the bass line (bass melody). Those two melodies dictate all of the harmonic possibilities that you will choose. Johnny Smith was a huge proponent of this method. Art Tatum was also. If you look at any great "chord melody" arrangement, it has both of these melodies as strong components of the tune. Dick Grove's materials are great for this. Guitarist Robert Conti has a book called 'The Formula" that outlines this in a very clear and concise manner (highly recommended). The melody/bass line interaction is also the core of how Martin Taylor approaches his solo guitar work. Same with Ted Greene. So, start there first and then proceed to the guitar.
I can give examples of this method, if anybody is interested. You pick the standard.
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Yes please do Originally Posted by mjirish
Ken
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My Romance Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
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You mean "drop two" I take it. I think that's what 4321 voicings are called. Richie has a bit on "chord studies" that are separate from the book lessons. (The series is not about chords but he shows voicings on the top four strings and there are sheets with examples of ii-V-I-vi in major and minor cadences in various inversions.) Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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Maybe we should have a Barry Greene thread and discuss the videos?
Ken
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Roni Ben-Hur's DVD Chordabilty the beginning is all about drop 2 and drop 3 chords before he gets in the his take on the BH stuff. I hadn't watched that DVD in ages and noticed it in my stacks of things, now that the BH Light Bulb has clicked on for me (finally) it was interesting to watch again. I like his guitarist point of view of borrowed notes. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Des anybody have any videos or audio examples of them playing through standards using the Barry Harris method. I got the book and have been messing around with it. I like it quite a bit, but it would be interesting to see "where it's going" so to speak.
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There a lots of Barry Harris youtubes of him speaking at clinics and Barry playing from his own albums and on others. It's key to get that sound in your ear to understand what's going on. To me once you get that sound in your ear you'll hear it everywhere up to the McCoy Tyner and Herbie Hancock era beginning then the voicing start changing. Originally Posted by JazzMuzak
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So, if I am a complete newbie in regards to comping & chord movement, what would be the book for me? I had Randy Vincent's 3 note voicing book which I loved, but gave to my friend since hewas advanced enough to get proper use
I am mainly interested in comping over I-V-I-V, I-VI-II-V-I-I, & static harmony.
Probably learning Static Harmony would be the most useful at the moment.
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Originally Posted by Sti Eci Tephor
Maybe need to go buy a couple six-packs of beer and hang out with your friend for awhile play, talk music and play more. One of the best ways to learn is hanging with others and playing and talking music.
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I don't I have a bunch of chord books, and I definitely need more work, but William Leavitt's modern guitar method is a great start with the static harmony , especially dominant and minor. Book 2 "chord forms" lessons begin with CESH patterns. Originally Posted by Sti Eci Tephor
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Thanks Matt, I'll take a look on amazon.
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I am putting some examples together for 'My Romance' for the OP. It will be chord grids, so easy to follow. Should be ready soon, it's quite long so I 'll probably post it as a PDF. Originally Posted by JazzMuzak
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Hey, Ken! "My Romance" it is! I will start to put something together. Will be fun!
Can I put up a pdf with music notation on it? I am kind of new to this sort of thing. Please advise. Mike
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You can attach PDF files. Originally Posted by mjirish
If you want to really get tech then "Screenflow" is worth looking into.
Looking forward to your example.
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My copy of Alan's book arrived today. Comes with a CD.
nasy sleeting icy day out there today.
So, that's two things arriving from the Great White North at the same time.
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Originally Posted by NSJ
My copy of Alan's book arrived today. Comes with a CD.
nasy sleeting icy day out there today.
So, that's two things arriving from the Great White North at the same time.
Make a mug of Mexican coffee (Kahlua, tequila, & coffee) to keep warm with and strum the night away.
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Originally Posted by JazzMuzak
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Yvonnick... Originally Posted by David B
I went to college with him and we played together a little. He's the one that got me into Lester Young and Lennie Tristano School school...
The good days.
He was a very funny dude.
Grasso is BH's favorite guitarist from what I heard. That says a lot!
Grasso plays guitar like Bud Powell plays piano, and yet it still sounds like a guitar (amazing
).
Grasso lives in NYC, but I am taking a break from studying with other guitarists for the moment. But what a playa!
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12-28-2015, 07:53 PM #623destinytot Guest
Art Tatum
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That looks nice Matt, but I can't read music.
http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Method-...leavitt+guitar
I know this excludes me from a bunch of material: I bought 2 of Ted Greene's books once & had to return them, which made me pretty sad since I'm a pretty big fan. Thanks for the suggestion though, I do have some basic books to start reading: which I plan to start once I get lessons.
I also have Louis Bellson 2 books Odd timings & 4/4 timing for when i get there in 15 years. (lol)
I really liked Randy Vincent's book 3 note book, but I don't remember if it talks about movement in the script.
I liked Jim Ferguson's Comping book, but those harmonies all seem so far out or extended (idk if that's right termonology oh well.) maj7#11, Maj13, m13, or 13 are all nice but i at the moment I don't think it would be a wise use to time to use chords more outside than that(honestly im prob. not ready for even those). & I vaguely recall seeing stuff that looked like 9#7b5(no. 3rd)
I just want to be able to make 4 bars some simple chord sound interesting & exotic, while having an equanimity in the sounds I am presenting.
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That's one of the best Grasso video I've heard he used to play Smalls quite a bit, but only occasionally now. It's helps growing up with a brother who's and excellent Jazz sax player so lots of listening and playing together. I heard Pasquale is a big fan of Bud Powell and that's what got me back to listening to Powell again. Originally Posted by Irez87
Yvonnick...
I went to college with him and we played together a little. He's the one that got me into Lester Young and Lennie Tristano School school...
The good days.
He was a very funny dude.
Grasso is BH's favorite guitarist from what I heard. That says a lot!
Grasso plays guitar like Bud Powell plays piano, and yet it still sounds like a guitar (amazing).
Grasso lives in NYC, but I am taking a break from studying with other guitarists for the moment. But what a playa!
So you've studied with Pasquale that must be very interesting even to just sit close and watch him play and ask questions.
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