Effective Ways to learn Comping

[Horszt]

Hey Guys,

I am just pretty much at the point where solo's work and I get every time better through the chord changes. Now I know basic comping, I know my chord inversions, I know rhythms... But still, I do not know where to start with a strict comping routine?

I am just getting some Parker Repertoire so my idea was to also practice over the same tunes to comp (logical... ). But I do not know where to start, I am so overwhelmed by so many possibilities to comp and wanted to ask you how did you practice it...? or still practice it in a regular way!!

My goal is that I enjoy comping as much as soloing, my own voice.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[pushkar000]

Well one thing you can do is pick a tune and comp through it only within any 4-fret span on the guitar.
You can practice working on melody lines in the top voice over various tunes.
You can try to transcribe voicings and rhythms from other players.
You can also try to practice comping and soloing at the same time.

[Hep To The Jive]

Hey Guys,

I am just pretty much at the point where solo's work and I get every time better through the chord changes. Now I know basic comping, I know my chord inversions, I know rhythms... But still, I do not know where to start with a strict comping routine?

I am just getting some Parker Repertoire so my idea was to also practice over the same tunes to comp (logical... ). But I do not know where to start, I am so overwhelmed by so many possibilities to comp and wanted to ask you how did you practice it...? or still practice it in a regular way!!

My goal is that I enjoy comping as much as soloing, my own voice.

Cheers,

Jonathan

Im not sure there's such a thing as a strict comping routine. The way I understand it, comping is how you react to what people are playing in the band. You listen to a soloist, or a rhythm section, and its dicated by how you feel in the moment. I find its hard to practice when you playing alone. Unless you are practicing la pompe, or Freddie Green style, then its a very specific way of playing rhythm, but I dont think that what comping is. I might be wrong, and Im looking forward to other answers.

[nado64]

..;
I am just getting some Parker Repertoire so my idea was to also practice over the same tunes to comp (logical... ).
...

Maybe start to listen Billy Bauer

[BjornFJ]

Good question, also looking forward to other answers/ideas.

Im also in the process of improving my comping.

To me it has been useful to:

Practicing 2-note comping, mostly the 3rd and 7th.
Approaching these 2-note-grips a half step above and below to get som movement.
To incorporate syncopation (check youtube, Andreas Öberg has a great lesson on this)
After getting comfortable with 2-note comping, I like to add more flavors to your chords. i.e. C7: add an A note (C13), or an Ab note (C7#5) etc.

[grahambop]

Don't overlook the importance of rhythm. Comping should provide good rhythmic punctuation and support, not just harmonic support.

Once I wrote out the rhythms of Sonny Clark's piano comping on one tune on a Blue Note record (might have been a Dexter Gordon one). I think I also did one by Herbie Hancock from a similar record. I didn't try to decipher the chords, I just wrote the rhythms down. I can't really remember why I did this now, but one side-effect I noticed was that I became much more aware of how rhythmically effective their comping was, and I started using some of the same rhythms.

For example they did things like play a very staccato, clipped chord, followed by a space, then a longer sustained chord. There was constant change and variety going on in the rhythms, and the precision with which they placed the chords is as sharp and funky as James Brown, when you really listen to it. It's easy to overlook all that stuff on those records when your focus is on the soloist.

[mikeSF]

Just listen to great comping and you will understand how they function to compliment the soloist. After while, you will be able to emulate this yourself.
Check out Ed Bickert - one of the best.
I also like Jim Hall's comping but there are scads of players who could comp well (Kessel, Pass)

[Horszt]

Do you think that comping to a more simple backing track (one chord, one progression) is an easier point to start, or should I right away try my best comping through my tunes in different psitions of the fretboard?

[pushkar000]

Well you can start with a tune you are familiar with and practice comping through it on any frets it doesn't matter. Don't apply any restrictions yet. Just make sure you can play the right chord at the right time. You can check out videos on youtube for demonstrations. Check out some basic jazz guitar comping rhythms too like 4-to-the-bar and Charleston.

If you are comfortable with this, and if you know multiple inversions of chords, then you can try to choose any 5 fret span and spend say one week or something from frets 8-12 and just play all the tunes you know on those frets only. Then move to frets 6-10 or something.

Other restrictions could be :
1) Playing only select strings, 1234, 1245, 1346 anything really.
2) Playing only certain intervals. eg. Shell voicings : 1,3,7 or just 3,7 of the chord.
3) Coming up with cool melodies on top
4) Only triads, only upper structures etc.

Always check out what players are doing on recordings you will definitely find cool stuff there which will inspire you to learn and practice it. Also if you can play with people and record yourself, you can probably figure out what you need to work on.

[grahambop]

Comping along to jazz CDs can be very instructive and gets you to feel the rhythm. Also great fun. You can be part of Miles Davis' classic 50s quintet for one night if you want to!

[mikeSF]

Comping along to jazz CDs can be very instructive and gets you to feel the rhythm. Also great fun. You can be part of Miles Davis' classic 50s quintet for one night if you want to!

great idea.
this is how i learned to play walking basslines. I put on So What and tried to imitate Paul Chambers...my playing sounded more like Paul Bunyan (choppy), but it was a tremendous learning experience.

[Reg]

All great points... personally I believe you need to develop a bunch of basic comping techniques, which I will get into, but you need to 1st start developing how to imply chords. Think of a one chord... Cmaj7... how many way etc... can you imply that Cmaj7 chord. basically how many grooves can you play that imply Cmaj7. There are different styles, swing, latin etc... but there are also harmonic chord patterns that imply the Cmaj7.
example... Cmaj7 G7 etc...
Cmaj7.... Db13 or Dbm6/9 etc
Cma7 D-7 or D9 etc...
Cmaj7 Eb9
Cmaj7 basically any chord, the goal is to become aware of what harmonic organization will make any chord imply Cmaj7

Then the rest of the chords, your developing the skill to make any chord a Tonal Target.
Then chord patterns.

I usually make players start with basic Diatonic chords from Maj scale.
Cmaj7
D-7
E-7
Fmaj7
etc... come up with short grooves that make each chord implied, feel like a tonal Target.

I'm gotta run... But I'll post some examples latter to day. I've really been wanting to get something going on this topic,
It's one of the big week links of most guitarist etc...

[eblydian]

I personally got enough ideas from this video to get me woodshedding for a couple of years.

It's more about chord melody, but comping is equally strongly about building a wide vocabulary.

[grahambop]

That diatonic thing Reg mentioned is cool, I've been doing a bit of that recently. So taking key of G, where you might play a line as a simple arpeggio on G major, I tried to play it with chords (mainly just 3 or 4 note chords). So ascending G, Bm, D7, F#m7-5 chords.
I guess this is similar to Wes Montgomery's block chord solo method. But when you start really moving these chords around, up, down, stepping around that diatonic scale, it starts to sound really cool for comping. Takes some practice though!

And you can do the same thing on a minor diatonic 'scale' of chords, sounds great for comping with more variety on things like So What.

[Irez87]

I really think more people should look into the Van Eps triads and THEN go into the block chords. Since college, I knew that playing grips led to more looking at the fretboard and less hearing what the rest of the band was doing. I am finally taking the "training wheels off" and starting to use super and subs of triadic forms to hear through the harmony instead of "insert block chord here for Am7 and then insert block chord here for D7".

In terms of getting milage of Drop 2's, Randy Vincent's book is great. He has you go through scales using the chords, and you can just use fragments of the scale (minor bebop) to create comping lines.

I stand by the notion that harmony is more of a horizontal endeavor that is more akin to melodic playing than usually taught.

[christianm77]

Hey Guys,

I am just pretty much at the point where solo's work and I get every time better through the chord changes. Now I know basic comping, I know my chord inversions, I know rhythms... But still, I do not know where to start with a strict comping routine?

I am just getting some Parker Repertoire so my idea was to also practice over the same tunes to comp (logical... ). But I do not know where to start, I am so overwhelmed by so many possibilities to comp and wanted to ask you how did you practice it...? or still practice it in a regular way!!

My goal is that I enjoy comping as much as soloing, my own voice.

Cheers,

Jonathan

Start by comping through a song with one type of chord (drop 2/3 etc) and with one rhythm, making the voice leading as tight as possible. Very often when comping there's a sweet spot in the register that works with the instrument you are comping four - lower chords for an alto or trumpet, slightly higher for a tenor, higher still for a bass solo. Same for vocalists.

To develop flexibility, keep chopping and changing. It may be slower in the short run, but you will develop more flexibility in the long run. So don't practice drop 2's on 6432 every time, for example.

Simple comping rhythms (swing feel)

One in a bar on 1
One in a bar on 4+
Two in a bar 1 and 3
Two in a bar 4+ and 2+
Two in a bar 2 and 4
Two in a bar 1+ and 2+
Straight Four
All off beats
Charleston (very common!) 1 and 2+
Reverse Charleston

Should get you going on the simple stuff. A teacher once suggested I practice comping on the rhythms in Bellson. I haven't got around to this yet. Seems like a good idea.

MOST IMPORTANT - Play with lots of other musicians. Listen really hard to what they are playing and respond.

Comping comes in two main flavours for me -
- 'groove' (a set rhythm)
- 'interactive' (in response to the soloist) The most widely accepted form of this is counterpoint - plays something in the gaps, basically, play simple when they play (maybe one in a bar.)

Hope that's of use.

[Irez87]

Practice hearing larger chunks of time, think like a drummer.This doesn't mean thinking in one measure units, and it definitely doesn't mean thinking in quarter notes (you will loose the groove and the form that way, even if you are doing Freddie Green -- my favorite). Think of how hits sound in 2 bar phrases or 4 bar phrases. Especially for bebop, keep the comping sparse and the voicings sparser. Think in 3rds, 5ths, 4ths, and 6ths when comping and really listen to what the bass player is doing.

My whole thing is getting out of playing rote voicings and more into smaller chords. The going is slower, but it is easier to use the entire instrument instead of playing off of one area on the fretboard. Pick up the George Van Eps Guitar Method and some Randy Vincent, and through in some Galbraith as a foundation.

I am forever relearning how to comp, it's a life long pursuit. Ear training helps.

[alapai]

An Approach to Comping: The Essentials by Jeb Patton | Sher Music Co.

The best step-by-step method I have found. Prepare yourself for many hours of hard work!!

[Irez87]

I just bought the ebook, with mp3's. I really like how Jeb notates the rhythms as well. I really do think it's important to hear how diatonic and nondiatonic dyads and triads behave in a key when comping. Also, hearing comps in phrases as opposed to a measure long exercise.

[edh]

So Jeb shows how to comp different rhythms?

[Jonah]

I had to start learning comping without anyone to play with around...

I usually do not use much methodical books but in this case three relatively small books really helped to get the basis in different styles

- All Blues for Jazz Guitar by Jim Fergusson
- Barry Galbrauth Comping book
- Four-to-the-bar comping by Charlton Johnson

If you take it both critically and creatively and support with good harmony knowledge you can learn all you need to feel secure at the first jams..
and after that playing in real group will help to develope it

As per routine.. I comped for myself wiith looper, and I comped for recordings

[Irez87]

Jeb transcribes the full comp to many solos. He has Barry Harris, Bud Powell, Horace Silver, and Red Garland comping transcriptions. Then he shows you typical comping rhythms that each pianist gravitates to. Many of the piano voicings are impossible on the guitar, so you kinda have to pick and choose with your ear. Great way of studying movement, much better than most guitaristic comping books. That Galbraith book was my bread and butter for a while, still go back to it!

[Horszt]

Hey,

I am really thinking about buying this book by Jeb Patton... convince me please, hahaha, I do not know :S

[Irez87]

If you are interested in comping like a pianist and have gone through some George Van Eps, Randy Vincent, or Barry Galbraith at the least, then yes. No tab, but it comes with 2 CDs full of comping. I like the book because it fits with my whole horizontal approach to comping and helps me venture out of static voicings. I would buy it just to hear the rhythmic cadences that Jeb uses. Really hip stuff.

[edh]

Thanks for the info. It's on my wish list. I'll be getting this(sooner rather than later).