Phrygian chord

[Mick-7]

Play more than one! Those Quartals sound best as smears like that.

I suppose, but mixing them with 4th/2nd chords provides more variety re: dissonant note choices

[pamosmusic]

I suppose, but mixing them with 4th/2nd chords provides more variety re: dissonant note choices

A fourth and a second is an inverted quartal.

C F B … F B C … B C F

they’re all nice, run through a scale

[pamosmusic]

(Note This 4/2 structure is an inversion of a quartal triad. The other is 5/2.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh. Jinx.

[Mick-7]

(Note This 4/2 structure is an inversion of a quartal triad. The other is 5/2.)

A fourth and a second is an inverted quartal.

C F B … F B C … B C F

they’re all nice, run through a scale

I guess it is, hadn't thought of it that way, obviously I haven't integrated this concept into my playing, this conversation has reminded me to do so. Thanks.

I don't always understand Christian's formal theoretical explanations.

[rpjazzguitar]

Can you give an example of a tune where you vamp in phrygian mode?

Usually, when I see 7susb9 or phrygian written in a chart, it's a transitional chord for a beat or two. So, I can look at the chords before and after and try to see the voice leading. So, say the transitional chord is a C7susb9. The full spelling would be C F G Bb Db. The bassist has the C, (you hear the G as an overtone if you omit it, which you can) and that leaves 4, 7 and b9. So, those are the notes I'd be looking to play.

Or, if I don't have time to think it through, I might use one of the two 7susb9 grips I already know. Or I might be going by a rule like maj7#11 a half step up.

I still don't get what the composer who writes phrygian as a chord symbol is trying to communicate. Seems like it would be suggesting more freedom than writing 7susb9. Akin, say, to writing "C melodic minor" as a chord symbol. If Mark Levine did that, I'd assume he was accepting any voicing using the notes of Cmelmin while telling the bassist to play a C. That would make sense to me, but I've never seen it.

I don't know if writing phrygian means you can use any cluster of notes from the phrygian mode. That works, more or less, with melodic minor. I'm guessing that phrygian wouldn't work the same way. Somewhere, major scale harmony has an avoid note.

When I play around with the various voicings that have been suggested in this thread, unsurprisingly, the ones that I find capture the sound in my mind all have a b9, often at the top of the chord (0x3200 is a prominent exception). Consider 07776x vs 08775x.

I can live without the b6. Consider 07776x vs 07756x. Although I think that 0 x 10 10 12 12 also captures the sound (I use that chord a lot as Dmelmin without the E root, so maybe I'm a little less objective about it).

But, 0x7767 sounds good and any Dm6/E sounds good too.

[Mick-7]

I still don't get what the composer who writes phrygian as a chord symbol is trying to communicate.

It is unusual, in fact I've never seen a single chord labelled phrygian, I have seen the Imaj7#11 chord labelled lydian to distinguish it from a regular Imaj7 chord (in fact Vic Juris does it in his book). Usually a modal name is applied to a series of chords. So I suppose we can surmise the author is saying: play a minor b6/b9 chord voicing.

[Christian Miller]

A fourth and a second is an inverted quartal.

C F B … F B C … B C F

they’re all nice, run through a scale

If you go through Mick Goodrick voice leading cycles with them (which i do a lot) you cycle through them in various ways.

This breaks up the parallelism - I don’t really like the sound of parallel diatonic seconds that much, like in the Vic Juris example.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[James W]

Can you give an example of a tune where you vamp in phrygian mode?

These are the best I can do -

Phrygian chords crop up from time to time in Holdsworth e.g. 0274, to my ears at least.

And not forgetting that Coltrane's 'Transition' is a blues where the tonic is a Phrygian chord.

[James W]

The last tune here is called 'Phrygia'.

[mr. beaumont]

You can't capture the phrygian/locrian dissonant minor scale intervals with straight 4th chords (they run away from them) but you can with 4/2 chords (4th + 2nd).

For example, C major/E phrygian 4/2 chord combinations - you could use the open low E string as a pedal point with these.

(b6/b9) | x-x-3-0-1-x | >> | x-x-5-2-3-x | >> (b6) | x-x-5-5-3-x | >> | x-x-7-4-5-x |

| x-x-7-7-5-x | >> (b9) | x-x-9-9-6-x | >> (b6/b9) | x-x-10-10-8-x | >> | x-x-12-9-10-x |

Vic Juris'es book, Modern Chords, is entirely about this subject: constructing chords from scale intervals and using them for comping.

These are cool sounds. Though I think you could comp through a section of "E Phrygian" pretty easily by creating some chord patterns with the simple 4ths...

Take these shapes...

x 7 7 7 8 x

x 8 9 9 10 x

x 10 10 10 12 x

I'd omit the "root", and then create tension with some side stepping...

[Irishmuso]

[QUOTE=Christian Miller;1446412]



Listen to how spooky the C major 7 arpeggio sounds over the Em chord

And also the Matrix. Here we have swells of C on top of Em in the orchestra. It signals duality?



/QUOTE]

It's always been a bit of a mystery - one of the many for me. I don't understand how C on top of Em could be considered phrygian. C on top of E major yes but Em no. What am I missing?

I'd love to know what Reg plays for C phrygian. Maybe he plays number of different voicings depending on the context but phrygian is a pretty net concept.

[Mick-7]

Listen to how spooky the C major 7 arpeggio sounds over the Em chord. And also the Matrix. Here we have swells of C on top of Em in the orchestra. It signals duality?

It's always been a bit of a mystery - one of the many for me. I don't understand how C on top of Em could be considered phrygian. C on top of E major yes but Em no.

F^7 over Em would be more phrygid - um, phrygian - C over E major (say Am6 or F#m7b5) would characterize harmonic major.

What am I missing?

An F note.